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Post by ckosacranoid on Nov 23, 2012 23:28:13 GMT -5
i know a lot of you have been wanting to add aircraft to the game to fight it out on the fleet level. has anyone thought about borrowing the fighter rules and tweaking them from full thurst or spartan games distupioan wars? bpoth games allow aircraft on the board and both use a simple rule set that would work i think and also add in the fact that the places have only so much fuel on board and you could also borrow the idea of launching fighters in combat also to deal with a incoming air attack. it is something to think about and something to start with for an idea of what to work with for the rules.
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Post by ckosacranoid on Dec 14, 2012 18:32:55 GMT -5
soany thoughts?
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Post by regiamarina on Dec 14, 2012 20:30:05 GMT -5
Aircraft were never really active in a naval action. I can only think of perhaps one battle, Cape Matapan, where they were and even then they were more involved when the ships were not shooting at each other. The games I've played that included aircraft in the game became an air game with naval targets. If you must have aircraft in the game then Dystopian Wars is a simple way of doing it but remember that all the ships in that game have good amounts of AA to fend off all the fantasy aircraft flying around. I personally like the way aircraft are handled in the rules. They launch and attack prior to or after a surface action damaging ships and effecting the battle without being on the board, more accurate for an historical game I think. Think of the Hiei after the battle of Guadalcanal, ripped into by surface ships but finished off by aircraft, aircraft were there but not during the surface action. As for launching whilst under fire in combat I've attached a couple of videos that show just how much effort is inlvolved in aircraft operations on a carrier and the time it takes to get everything right without 15" shells dropping on you. I'll let you decide. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqfbjnGlqks www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfkwjU8k6W4 Martin
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Post by TheDreadnought on Dec 18, 2012 13:42:19 GMT -5
I've never really understood why so many people, incluing hard core historical types, want to model aircraft engaging surface targets during a surface action to the extent they want their airplanes on the table. It's not really based in history at all, and yet it is a common request. Just wait until my flying battleship game comes out. . . then you can do it all you like without concern!
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Post by ckosacranoid on Dec 19, 2012 1:47:54 GMT -5
i was just tossing commets out here since sevral poeple have talked about it at cons and even on the boards. I figured I would at least toss something out here for thought and see what people think. kinda like the sub thing.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Dec 19, 2012 17:06:06 GMT -5
Yeah I think there are a couple threads on here where people have proposed systems. . . or even using dedicated aircraft systems as bolt ons.
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Post by evanmiller70 on Dec 19, 2012 22:57:58 GMT -5
ive thought about the gwas aircraft rules you can download them for free from there website
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Post by warchariot on Dec 20, 2012 11:43:26 GMT -5
I must agree with Dread on his point about engaging surface targets during a surface battle. This set of rules are for fighting it out toe to toe as in WWI (and is why I like that period better).
But it does show that people like these rules so much that they want to do it all by adding in aircraft and subs! Maybe some day, after all the "other" rules Dread wants to do, this could be added to the game in some way. Meanwhile, I guess those of you who want to do this will have to come up with their own house rules. So help this guy out, I can't seem to find the other house rules for subs and aircraft, can someone point him towards them?
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Post by seado3 on Dec 21, 2012 14:21:18 GMT -5
From another recent topic
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Post by ckosacranoid on Dec 22, 2012 21:02:51 GMT -5
Aircraft might be harder to deal with during the game, but the subs would be easy to add in during the game since if nothing else you can open up the ideas for some action of the subs caught in surface action of if nothing else extra hidden actions during a surface action.
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Post by warchariot on Dec 23, 2012 11:12:00 GMT -5
From another recent topic Thanks for the link, I'm sure there are some others?
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Post by padowski on Feb 1, 2013 14:23:27 GMT -5
Japanese aircraft actually played a role in the Battle of the Java Sea spotting shots for the Japanese cruisers. I've interviewed a number of men who were in the battle and done significant research. I understand a lone P-40 flew over the scene. The Allies were firing anti-aircraft rounds in the P-40's general direction trying to get his attention so he could shoot down the Japanese float plane that was giving the IJN an advantage. The P-40 pilot never got the hint and continued on to try an attack at the Japanese transports over the horizon. I don't think the P-40 hit anything and certainly would have done more good had the pilot shot down a Japanese snooper instead. Aircraft were never really active in a naval action. I can only think of perhaps one battle, Cape Matapan, where they were and even then they were more involved when the ships were not shooting at each other. The games I've played that included aircraft in the game became an air game with naval targets. If you must have aircraft in the game then Dystopian Wars is a simple way of doing it but remember that all the ships in that game have good amounts of AA to fend off all the fantasy aircraft flying around. I personally like the way aircraft are handled in the rules. They launch and attack prior to or after a surface action damaging ships and effecting the battle without being on the board, more accurate for an historical game I think. Think of the Hiei after the battle of Guadalcanal, ripped into by surface ships but finished off by aircraft, aircraft were there but not during the surface action. As for launching whilst under fire in combat I've attached a couple of videos that show just how much effort is inlvolved in aircraft operations on a carrier and the time it takes to get everything right without 15" shells dropping on you. I'll let you decide. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqfbjnGlqks www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfkwjU8k6W4 Martin
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Post by fannyhil on Feb 1, 2013 22:55:03 GMT -5
The best example I can remember is Leyte. There were numerous examples there.
I have often thought that might be an interesting one to play out if you could get the Japanese player to be cautious. My thought it to tell them that TF 34 was just spotted by army spotters x miles away. To throw them a loop, Oldendorf's old battleships that were low on ammo could show up, or a strike from the carriers could show up. The victory conditions would have to be set up to simulate Kurita's frame of mind (under constant sub and air attack for the better part of the last three days) with aircraft in the air thick as gnats during the summer.
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Post by regiamarina on Feb 1, 2013 23:40:22 GMT -5
padowski- spotter/recon rules are already in the game. The OP was talking about adding combat aircraft to the on board game, so dive bombers, torpedo bombers, etc and being fended off by fighters. @fannyhill- true the Battle off Samar and the ambush of Taffy 3. This would be more special house rules to distract attackers though as I have no idea how dropping depth charges on ships would work or what they would do. Minimal damage but penalties to for shooting maybe? Would be an interesting scenario. Martin
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