IJN CVE Taiyo

[brigman]

Taiyo class Escort Carrier (Taiyo, Unyo, Chuyo)
Class & type: Taiyō-class escort carrier
Displacement: 17,830 long tons (18,120 t) (standard)
19,500 long tons (19,800 t) (maximum)
Length: 173.7 m (569 ft 11 in) w/l
180.4 m (591 ft 10 in) o/a
Beam: 22.5 m (73 ft 10 in)
Draft: 8 m (26 ft 3 in)
Installed power: 25,200 shp (18,800 kW)
Propulsion: 2 × Kampon geared steam turbines
4 × Kampon water-tube boilers
2 × shafts
Speed: 21 kn (39 km/h; 24 mph)
Range: 6,500 nmi (12,000 km; 7,500 mi) at 18 kn (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Complement: 747
Armament:

Upon completion as escort carrier: 4 × 120 mm L/45 10th Year Type anti-aircraft guns
4 × 25 mm L/60 Type 96 anti-aircraft cannons (2x2)
8 × 13.2 mm L/76 Type 96 anti-aircraft machine guns (2x4)
From 30 July 1942: 4 × 120 mm L/45 10th Year Type anti-aircraft guns
18 × 25 mm L/60 Type 96 anti-aircraft cannons (2x3, 4x2)
From 14 July 1943: 4 × 120 mm L/45 10th Year Type anti-aircraft guns
30 × 25 mm L/60 Type 96 anti-aircraft cannons (6x3, 4x2)
From 18 April 1944: 4 × 120 mm L/45 10th Year Type anti-aircraft guns
56 × 25 mm L/60 Type 96 anti-aircraft cannons (8x3, 2x2, 28x1)
8 × Type 95 depth charges
Armor: 2.5 cm (0.98 in) side belt over machinery spaces and magazines
Aircraft carried: 27

[brigman]

Proposed stats:
Taiyo-class Escort Carrier (8+)
Hull: 71 (17830 t)
Speed: 5
Armour: 4
SAV: 1
AA / ASW: 7 / 0
Move Step: Cruiser
Shoot Step: Cruiser
Fire Control: JPN
Secondary Weapons: 8 x 5"/40
Secondary Data:
Short: 7 Med: 14 Long: 21 Ext: 28
Arcs: 2x [2] P
2x [2] S
Aircraft: 3 (Fighter), 3 (Dive Bomber) Flight Ops: 2

As always, feedback welcome!

[brigman]

Dreadnought, any chance of getting this class included in a future revision of NT:BR?

With the class limits the IJN run into, they could use another CVE, in my view...

Would also love to see the Unryu class included, for pretty much the same reasons.

[TheDreadnought]

Was this a actual built as opposed to a proposal?

The only reason I skipped actual builts was generally because they were virtually identical to another design statistics wise. Have you checked to see if that is the case here?

[brigman]

This was an actually-built ship class. It, and its sisters, were conversions from liners. It is very similar to the Shinyo-class CVE, but not identical (at least as I figured the stats; compare above to Shinyo). Also, Shinyo has a class limit of 1, while these had 3 in the class. Additionally, these would be available in the Early war period (1941-42), while Shinyo has a 1943 date.

These ships were ocean liners built by the shipping line Nippon Yusen, requisitioned by the Imperial Japanese Navy and converted to escort carriers. They were usually employed as air-crew training ships, aircraft transports and as anti-submarine convoy escorts. None of them survived the war, all were sunk by submarines.

Just figured, as thin as IJN class limits are, they could use all the help they could get!

[regiamarina]

The stats I have for the Taiyo class are almost identical to Shinyo. Displacement, length, breadth, speed are all almost identical. So close that really the only difference I would say would be an extra hull point and slightly less flights for Taiyo. AA is different so would have to be gauged by Dred but to be honest this is just a cut and paste job from Shinyo. I don't think anyone would complain about you using Shinyo stats for the Taiyo class.

Kaiyo was different enough to warrant her own stats as are the Akitsu Maru class but again they were primarily aircraft transports so there's probably more important ships to stat up. The Akitsu Marus could be fun as they were intended to be amphibious assault ships.

Just my thoughts.

Martin

[brigman]

It's very similar. There are other units in the game that are likewise similar or more so, such as the IJN Akatsuki and Fubuki classes; or Yugumo and Asashio classes.

The main reason to include her is the earlier date and higher class limit. She is very functionally close to Shinyo; I believe Taiyo is a point slower and has 1 more hull, in addition to carrying one less flight of planes.

[regiamarina]

All those other similar ships saw a large amount of combat with dozens of ships built across the classes. Little bit different to the Taiyo.

There's only about 1 knot of speed different so I don't think that warrants a full point less speed, but I certainly agree with the extra hull point. Modifying the Shinyo sheet in excel would be very easy.

I think a larger hole to be filled for Pacific ships would be the Dutch destroyers and cruisers. They were pretty active, at least for a little while.

Out of interest why can't you use the ship you've created now?

Martin

[brigman]

Well, I certainly can, but it doesn't have an official point cost to it. And others may not have it. I'd like to see it included in the fleet roster with the other IJN ships.

There are no Dutch ships in Battleship Row, so those I figure belong in another supplement... perhaps the "minor navies" supplement we all hope for. Could include Greeks, Poles, etc., along with the Dutch, there. But the IJN seem to belong in BR, and Taiyo and Unryu are the only "omissions" that stand out to me so far in their roster.

As for Taiyo's speed... 21 kt/4 would seem likely to round to 5. Shinyo's speed of 22 kt got it 6... when designing, do we round up always, or to the nearest...?

[regiamarina]

Oh ok now I get it you need Dred to do points for it. I was wondering why you couldn't use it as is because what you came up with looked perfectly fine to me and is pretty easy to modify in the excel card printing tool.

As for speed I think it's broken into brackets of 4. So 17-20 knots is speed 5, 21-24 knots is speed 6. I worked this out from using the old British battleships in the Med. Queen Elizabeth is about 24 knots, Revenge 21 knots and Nelson 22 or 23 knots and they are all classed as the same speed 6. I could be wrong and Dred may have used some other system entirely. Hope this helps with your designs.

Martin

[TheDreadnought]

Yeah that explains it.

Very similar to another ship class
Not many built
Little in the way of a combat record

3 fails on the "is this important enough to include in the book" criteria.

I'd say just use the stats/points for the other ship, or tweak them if necessary. The kind of difference you're talking about isn't going to translate into enough of a difference to substantially affect the outcome of the game. Your die rolls will matter more than whether the ship is 1 knot slower or faster. . . and as pointed out. . . 4 knots is the standard for what makes a difference in movement speed.

[brigman]

Understood, but that's my confusion. Shinyo was a class of 1, and was included in the book, with her year of 1943. Taiyo had two sisters, was in service in 1941, and yet isn't in the book. They are certainly similar enough to use the same stats, although there are some minor differences.

[TheDreadnought]

Well I'm guessing I probably got to Shinyo first, did the stats, saw Taiyo was virtually identical and moved on.

[brigman]

Gotcha. <CharlieBrownVoice>Curse you, alphabetical order!</voice>

[TheDreadnought]

LOL