|
Post by samulus on Apr 30, 2011 11:45:18 GMT -5
Just been working on some graphical SSDs for my Star Wars fleet, I just prefer this approach to the more spartan profile approach. The design philosophy might not be to everyone's taste and no doubt some of it will change as I get a chance to playtest more but here are my impressions anyways. All on Powerpoint 2007, I'm afraid if you don't have that program or newer you may struggle. Say what you like about powerpoint but it's damn easy to use... Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on Apr 30, 2011 12:14:28 GMT -5
I like these! They are fun and easy to read. Like some of the things you have done, how if we can have stats for fighters were all set!
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on Apr 30, 2011 12:55:48 GMT -5
Okay, I found the fighter stats! How does the shield work for the fighters? Also, you added hardpoints and over loaded some hard points. Of course you can do this, but it is a main design rule for the game.
|
|
|
Post by samulus on Apr 30, 2011 15:38:25 GMT -5
With regard to shields I hadn't really decided. I was thinking of introducing a 'shield' dice to the dogfight that is rolled as an extra combat die and then lined up with the rest, however, it can't destroy an enemy fighter and provides in effect a 'tied' result even if it score higher. I've seen the all tied rolls = victory for the shielded fighter idea floating around on the forum, but I don't really like this mechanic, shields should protect, not get you more kills. The problem with the 'shield' dice idea amongst others though is that it will scale poorly, one fighter will gain the same benefit as a whole squadron. Not sure what to do about this. Anyone got any better ideas? Maybe ignore one casualty per dogfight? could be a bit good though. I could introduce saving throws like in sci-fi/fantasy close combat but that will slow things down a bit...
Asides from hangar bays (where I decided that as star wars was all about the fighters, things could go a bit lax) when have I overloaded hardpoints? If so, this wasn't intentional and will need some attention.
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on Apr 30, 2011 22:21:10 GMT -5
when have I overloaded hardpoints? If so, this wasn't intentional and will need some attention. My fault, I was looking at the laser cannons on the smaller size 2 ships and misreading those as other weapons. As you say, you did over-load the fighters on Avenger by one, but that was something you explained. I do like what you have done with these. Keep up the great work.
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on Apr 30, 2011 22:28:43 GMT -5
With regard to shields I hadn't really decided. I was thinking of introducing a 'shield' dice to the dogfight that is rolled as an extra combat die and then lined up with the rest, however, it can't destroy an enemy fighter and provides in effect a 'tied' result even if it score higher. This is an interesting idea. It would work even if both sides have shields, add up the hits, reduce by one and you're done! I don't like the tie goes to the shield fighter as you say. It also as the draw back of no effect when both are shielded fighters.
|
|
|
Post by TheDreadnought on May 1, 2011 10:20:12 GMT -5
I like the shielded fighter wins on ties, I'll tell you why.
You're not rolling individual hits and misses, you're rolling to see who came out on top in the dogfight. Shields provide a tactical advantage that enable you to win more often. Maybe you pulled off a manever that an unshielded fighter would have gotten shot down while trying. Or maybe you could cover your wingman a little longer b c your own shields were protecting you. I think you guys are trying to take the shield mechanics to a deeper level of detail than the rest of the fighter rules.
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on May 1, 2011 11:04:22 GMT -5
I like the shielded fighter wins on ties, I'll tell you why. You're not rolling individual hits and misses, you're rolling to see who came out on top in the dogfight. Shields provide a tactical advantage that enable you to win more often. Maybe you pulled off a manever that an unshielded fighter would have gotten shot down while trying. Or maybe you could cover your wingman a little longer b c your own shields were protecting you. I think you guys are trying to take the shield mechanics to a deeper level of detail than the rest of the fighter rules. You're right we are adding too much. So the shield rule could be: "Squadrons with shields roll one extra dice beyond the number of fighters in the squadron and discard one die with the lowest result. Then resolve the combat as usual."
|
|
|
Post by samulus on May 1, 2011 11:10:46 GMT -5
@ Warchariot - thanks for the comments, Yeah the laser cannon is basically the gatling laser but for the sake of fluff I changed the name to something more star warsy. Jury's till out on the shields tho, I think it jut needs some playtesting to see what feels right.
@the Dreadnought - I get the dogfight win thing, reminds me a little of the fight mechanic from GW lotr miniatures game, and its nice considering it can cover everything, agility, armour, weaponry, pilot skill etc. I don't know why, I'm just not too keen on it, It seems abstract (which is absurd because all fighter rules are ridiculously abstract) and lacks a certain something. Your design philosophy makes perfect sense, I thought about the tied thing myself and came to much the same conclusions, as you say, a shielded fighter against a non-shielded one can simply go head to head and damn the return fire etc. I think the urge to get more dice or 'saves' is a leftover from the primordial part of my brain that used to play WH40K as a teenager. I think some playtesting would be the best method to work it out.
As a side issue, how good do you reckon winning tied rolls is? how much tonnage would be appropriate? (I'm crap with statistical stuff).
|
|
|
Post by samulus on May 1, 2011 11:16:49 GMT -5
Ah, just read warchariots later post - that might well work, I'll give it a try when I have some dice to hand and see how it pans out.
|
|
|
Post by irishthump on May 3, 2011 7:26:03 GMT -5
Those sheets are great, make playing even more fun! Great work on the stats too, are these basically the rules for the Star Wars fleet book?
I'm no games designer but just one thought on the fighters, I was thinking the B-Wing and Tie Bomber should be classed as "gunships" similar to Raptors in MvM and maybe carrying some heavy ordnance for attacking capital ships.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on May 3, 2011 19:23:36 GMT -5
Those sheets are great, make playing even more fun! Great work on the stats too, are these basically the rules for the Star Wars fleet book? I'm no games designer but just one thought on the fighters, I was thinking the B-Wing and Tie Bomber should be classed as "gunships" similar to Raptors in MvM and maybe carrying some heavy ordnance for attacking capital ships. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I like the gunship idea!
|
|
|
Post by toaster on May 3, 2011 21:37:15 GMT -5
I think gunship is a bit heavy for Tie bombers and B-wings as these ships are flown in squadrons, how about giving them the nuke rule from MvM, (or Fighter Fusion Torps from the core rules). The whole point of my rebels win tied rolls idea was not that the shields make the rebel fighters better but that sheilds are standard on fighters and the Tie range were designed as cut price disposable fighters so they have the fragile rule. Does that make more sense? Nice SSDs by the way.
Robert
|
|
|
Post by irishthump on May 4, 2011 6:13:39 GMT -5
I think gunship is a bit heavy for Tie bombers and B-wings as these ships are flown in squadrons, how about giving them the nuke rule from MvM, (or Fighter Fusion Torps from the core rules). Robert Maybe a bit heavy for Tie Bombers but definatley not B wings, which were built for engaging capital ships. Like the nuke idea though!
|
|
|
Post by irishthump on May 4, 2011 11:25:19 GMT -5
I think gunship is a bit heavy for Tie bombers and B-wings as these ships are flown in squadrons, I know what you mean, but how many of these ships do you actually see on screen? You only see a couple of TIE bombers being escorted by TIE fighters and at the Battle of Endor you only see a handful of B-Wings. Any info on the B-Wing describes it as a large, heavily shielded and armed ship capable of disabling capital vessels. I think the Gunship role describes them perfectly. I can get your point about it being a bit heavy for Tie Bombers which are described as being easy pickings for Rebel fighters. Maybe have them as Gunships but have it so that ONE hit in a dogfight destroys a ship. (Or is that too fragile?)
|
|
|
Post by warchariot on May 4, 2011 23:16:25 GMT -5
Remember, a gunship squadron is only 1 fighter strong takes two hits and usually rolls a D6 in a dogfight, so it is already fragile against 6 fighter squadrons.
|
|
|
Post by irishthump on May 5, 2011 4:11:43 GMT -5
Remember, a gunship squadron is only 1 fighter strong takes two hits and usually rolls a D6 in a dogfight, so it is already fragile against 6 fighter squadrons. I was thinking that! On a side note: in MvM the Heavy Raider is listed as D10 for dogfights, is this a typo?
|
|
|
Post by TheDreadnought on May 5, 2011 8:35:59 GMT -5
No, if you remember Starbuck tried to attack it and was beaten off by its heavy firepower. It's not super maneuverable, but it packs a lot of punch.
|
|
|
Post by bubbacleese on May 5, 2011 14:23:00 GMT -5
These SSDs are just beautiful. I know some of my friends will be very pleased.
|
|
|
Post by samulus on May 12, 2011 19:14:07 GMT -5
Thanks for all the comments guys, glad to know someone is enjoying these! I have finals currently so I haven't had time to try them out properly yet. Also some credit need to go to Dean from the star ranger forums, he had a file containing most of the images which was really useful, all that was needed was some transparency etc. Although i had to improvise a couple. With regard to the tie bombers and the b wings I'm gonna stick with my original choices (altho you can obviously do whatever you want in your rules...) The B-wing is a heavily armed fighter/bomber, less agile than the others but putting it down as a 'gunship' rules wise just feels wrong; the gunships from the MvM line are also troop transports and have an internal passenger bay + other functions. The B-wing does not. B-wings also fly in squadrons just like any other starfighter in the star wars universe. With reference to the 'nuke' rule, i thought quite a bit about this. however, if i gave it to the b-wing then the y-wing would also need it (if you read their wookiepedia articles, their weapon systems are very similar) and even the x-wing if the 'nuke' represented proton torpedoes. Also the 'nuke' would actually not be as good as you think it would be; if the squadron falls below 4 they cannot use it, losing their teeth. Also a nuke only does 8 damage with d10 penetration, a full b-wing squadron can inflict 18 damage potentially with the same penetration (also your receive more rolls, bad luck will place less of a role). Even a depleted squadron of 4 (the minimum required for the nuke) with potentially do 12 damage, still more than the nuke. So basically they're better this way and thats why they are as they are. | Couldn't think of any decent rules for ion cannons tho, in the end just tried to incorporate them into the general stats. Seemed less troublesome.
|
|