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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 3, 2012 0:33:38 GMT -5
So its not really a secret. . . Might as well start a thread about it.
Here's my first question. . .
All may games thus far have been "task-force" level. Designed so each player runs multiple ships. Six, eight, or even a dozen not uncommon.
Given the focus of this game though, I'm thinking about making it "duel-level" where each player could run 1 ship for an exciting game and maybe handle up to 3.
Keep in mind though, this would still be a game I wrote. . . so no matter what level its written at it will be designed to be fast paced (I hate slow, boring games). . . but if I design it for small engagements, maybe include things like simple power allocation, I could add a little more detail, and give it a different feel from a lot of my other games. . . and possibly fit the style a little better.
Thoughts?
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 3, 2012 3:17:13 GMT -5
That would put the game in the same niche as Federation Commander. Not saying that is a bad thing, just that Star Fleet Battles and Federation Commander have dominated the duel for some time. The mechanisms of both are a bit clunky and time-consuming though, so a fresh take and a new game approach would be welcome.
The old FASA game had some nice ideas too - the "job role for every bridge officer" interface with their RPG was a nice touch. Pity that the entire Starship Combat Simulator was not a terribly good system though.
I fairly recently introduced a pronounced Trekkie to both Federation Commander and Colonial Battlefleet - reaction was that he felt CBF was a much better game. That's the one we continue to play.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 3, 2012 9:10:16 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking there had been a lot of games in this space head in the other direction, toward larger, fleet oriented battles.
That's not really what the setting is about as much though. I was thinking that maybe there should be a duel-level game that is fast and easy to give people an alternative.
But yesterday I was all about the duel. No maybe not so much. I'm undecided. If anybody has feelings one way or the other, let me know.
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theoz
Lieutenant
Armored and Ready!
Posts: 54
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Post by theoz on Feb 3, 2012 9:36:06 GMT -5
(sorry to be gone so long; I am recovring from a stroke at Thanksgiving)
I would like to see a fleet-level game with just a little energy allocation, perhaps using counters? (balanced allocation, weapons first, defenses first, movement first)
FC is all right, but even its "fleet scale" takes time.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 3, 2012 9:59:25 GMT -5
(sorry to be gone so long; I am recovring from a stroke at Thanksgiving) Very sorry to hear about that! Hope you're doing ok. You've been missed around here. Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery! I would like to see a fleet-level game with just a little energy allocation, perhaps using counters? (balanced allocation, weapons first, defenses first, movement first) FC is all right, but even its "fleet scale" takes time. Unfortunately, "fleet level" and "energy allocation" don't go together. If you're doing energy allocation, your looking at a maximum of 2-3 ships per side for a realistic playtime. Incidentally I don't necessarily agree that energy allocation is necessarily a part of the Trek-style experience. Most of that stuff is just stuff they give actors to say so they have dialogue during combat scenes. Really rebalancing engergy loads and whatnot is stuff you'd expect to be going on all the time and not something that would be ordered by bridge officers, much less the captain. So, long story short, I a bias towards energy allocation just comes direction from SFB/FedCom days. That said, while I've traditionally been against it, I might be willing to include a simple allocation system, just because its something I haven't done before, and its a way to add interesting decision making when you get down to the individual ship level.
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Feb 3, 2012 11:24:51 GMT -5
My first thought is that if it is X Battlefleet, it should be compatible with the existing core and MvM rules. If not, call it something else.
Second, I'm pretty much over energy allocation. My favorite part of CBF is the trivial amount of planning/tracking that needs to be done. No pre-plotted movement, no hidden movement, no hidden minefields, no energy allocation. If you do need some sort of EA, please make it more like FC with dynamic tokens rather than SFB with the ungodly form that takes 1/2 the game time.
Third, I've been having fun with my variation for Trek with CBF rules using a 'warp core' that gives the effect of some bonus power to be used for additional functions. I didn't try to balance it against non-equipped ships because if I use it, I give it to every ship as a second dedicated equipment slot. Lets a ship do one of the following per turn, chosen as required during the turn: +1 DELTA, +1 FC, +1 DC, +1 PD, +3xSize REGEN. Could be made more granular - Delta could be choose for speed or turning only, FC could be choose for # targets or hit bonus only, etc.
Fourth, my preference is for flexibility on the scale, leaning towards fleet actions. That is probably because I've done plenty of duels and small squadron fights but not a lot of larger battles due to rulesets. In college, we did an SFB campaign that culminated in a Kzinti-Klingon battle with ~20 ships per side. There were hundreds of drones and dozens of fighters and PFs. We never finished the battle and ended up abandoning the campaign because of it!
Fifth, coming from the SFB/FC background (versus TNG onward), I actually like fighters and gunboats, but I understand if you want it to be closer to canon.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 3, 2012 14:00:59 GMT -5
In all honesty, I think if you did a duel game you'd come up with a more playable approach than SFB/FC.
But... SFB/FC do the Star Fleet Universe better than anyone else because its their speciality and licenced area. There are plenty of people out there who feel very restricted by the extrapolated background they pulled from Star Trek TOS and TAS. Full credit to them for creating a consistent universe from a very inconsistent original source material. Lots of people would much rather be playing Wolf 359, or the Dominion War or stuff like that though.
My own vote would go towards another sourcebook for CBF which brings a more Trek-like flavour but which still allows for fleet actions, battles against the not-Borg, "monsters" and suchlike.
If I really wanted to play in the Star Fleet Universe they have plenty of products to allow just that. And if I only wanted to duel with 1-3 ships, well Federation Commander already does that.
I'd rather take a dozen or so ships. There are duels in the TV episodes. But there are also plenty of situations which could produce fleet actions - Klingon Civil War, several Romulan situations, conflict with Cardassia, Dominion War, Klingon attack on DS9
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theoz
Lieutenant
Armored and Ready!
Posts: 54
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Post by theoz on Feb 4, 2012 10:22:20 GMT -5
Very sorry to hear about that! Hope you're doing ok. You've been missed around here. Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery! I would like to see a fleet-level game with just a little energy allocation, perhaps using counters? (balanced allocation, weapons first, defenses first, movement first) FC is all right, but even its "fleet scale" takes time. Unfortunately, "fleet level" and "energy allocation" don't go together. If you're doing energy allocation, your looking at a maximum of 2-3 ships per side for a realistic playtime. What I was thinking of was a system where the player secretly placed counters that commit those ships to "attack-energy to weapons" "defense=energy to shields" "movement=energy to engines" , which would give a bonus in the one area but cost limits in the others.
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Post by kjncindy on Feb 4, 2012 16:19:17 GMT -5
I would like to see your take on the 1-3 ships per player more detailed style of game. I am a big SFB fan but just do not have the time to play anymore. I am always looking for simpler and quicker alternatives and while I like Colonial Battlefleet and a host of others, the more space combat the merrier, I think. If you make it, I guarantee I will buy it. I would be interested to see how you do it with the level of detail and still keep it quick and flowing.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 4, 2012 17:35:27 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder if I could do both. Include a simple energy allocation system for small battles. . . but then simply have people ignore it for the larger battles.
Then there's the question of which setting. . . original, or movie era. Not too into the TNG stuff. Original has the benefit of having lots of nice miniatures around.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 4, 2012 17:42:08 GMT -5
Both?
There's a LOT of people who find the original - of the SFB spinoff - a bit restricting and who do want the TNG era.
Then of course you've now got the reboot "original" era as well...
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 4, 2012 20:54:47 GMT -5
Yeah I might be able to pull it off, have to give it some thought. There's a LOT of people who find the original - of the SFB spinoff - a bit restricting and who do want the TNG era. Yeah I know there are a lot of people who want that. The problem is, there just isn't much in the way of miniatures, and really I just don't find it as interesting. TNG is really a different style from TOS and the Movies. . . not just different races and ships.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 5, 2012 6:54:53 GMT -5
There's quite a lot of ships available via Shapeways, though I admit that Shapeways are not to everybody's tastes. Still sometimes possible to track down some of the Romando 1/7000th TNG/DS9 era models.
The WizKids Fleet Captains game along with old MicroMachines is probably going to offer the best possibilities as a mainstream source.
Only mention this because whenever I've introduced any of my circle to any of the SFB games they ALWAYS complain about it being set in the original era. There then follows a lengthy discussion about ADB licence boundaries, and then they only play grudgingly and still moaning about TNG.
I guess it's because people want to play what they are used to seeing on TV and film. Which probably means by the time they get Star Trek 12 released, the new reboot original series will take over the general imagination. But that's a very different TOS to 1965.
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Post by warchariot on Feb 5, 2012 16:13:55 GMT -5
Very sorry to hear about that! Hope you're doing ok. You've been missed around here. Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery! Unfortunately, "fleet level" and "energy allocation" don't go together. If you're doing energy allocation, your looking at a maximum of 2-3 ships per side for a realistic playtime. What I was thinking of was a system where the player secretly placed counters that commit those ships to "attack-energy to weapons" "defense=energy to shields" "movement=energy to engines" , which would give a bonus in the one area but cost limits in the others.[/color] This is what I was thinking. A one move ahead allocation where you had to plan a little. So you plot this turn, then place the chit for next turn kind of a thing. Also, I think sorce book so the system does has you have said, playing any space show/movie against each other. Feel better Oz
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Post by warchariot on Feb 5, 2012 16:15:35 GMT -5
Drew has some newer ships over on SCNs...
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Post by regan555 on Jul 27, 2012 0:51:12 GMT -5
Is there any word on a release date for this expansion yet? Looking forward to exploring this universe in our games.
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Post by warchariot on Jul 27, 2012 9:30:20 GMT -5
No there is not a release date as of yet. It looks more like next spring/summer at best as Harry has two other projects (at least) in front of this. Look for Star Reach for CBF and Rise II for NT to come out first
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 4, 2012 22:57:57 GMT -5
Coming to this thread a little late, so apologies. The point you made above to try and do both duel and fleet styles is interesting. I think it may be the way to go. How much source material to cover is another problem. I would suggest a solution. You would essentially have different sets of stats for different eras vessels. The TOS thru movies I - VI would be one set, and you could have a post TOS movie to pre TNG, and a TNG/DS9/Voyager set. The trick would be that you probably wouldn't play eras against each other. You might have to have a few overlaps of ship names, but an Excelsior, for example, at the end of the movie period would be less powerful than a Excelsior still in use in the TNG period. So in each era, each 'Empire' would have stats for small destroyers to large battleships, which may be similar or not to the next era up, but would be different vessels by name, or upgrades, like the Excelsior mentioned already. Did any of that make any sense? lol
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Post by maduncleandy on Sept 28, 2012 7:51:12 GMT -5
I would be very intrigued if you go this route *IF* you work out a way to interchange between this and the taskforce level. I would love to, for instance, integrate CB worlds, and have Empire v. Federation v. Cyborg sorts of encounters. I also would be very interested in seeing the duel type battle for MVM ships. When I consider the TV show that defines that background in my mind, most actions have one or two capitol ships per side.
Don't get me wrong, I love what we have, but being able to switch between the two would be fantastic.
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Post by trynda1701 on Dec 12, 2012 19:57:58 GMT -5
I noticed you mentioning this project last month over on The Miniatures Page thread entitled "Full Thrust or Starmada Nova?"
Is there anything you can share at the moment on your progress?
Mark
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