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Post by bubbacleese on Feb 20, 2012 16:24:42 GMT -5
I've been at the spreadsheet again and have popped out another great design...maybe. Using The Scourge tech levels. 2xPhazer, Hvy 2xPhazer, Hvy 5xSDT mag 10 5xSDT mag 5 2xDisruptor, Hvy 2xDisruptor, Hvy FC - 4 Shooting with Phazers and Distruptors until range drops to eight. The stick'em with the SDTs.
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Post by bubbacleese on Feb 25, 2012 10:16:35 GMT -5
It's been four days and 26 views but no comments.
I've designed three factions 1780 point must have at least one BB fleets as teaching tools for my group. I gave Corporate Worlds a Fighter heavy design, United Alliance Rail Gun heavy, and The Scourge the above design.
Corporate Worlds: BBC- Delta -1 FC - 1 P Def - 4 AV - 6 Hull - 98 1. Mag Cannon 3x - F/P/S 2. 5xStrike Fighters 3. 5xStrike Fighters 4. 5xInterceptors 5. 5xInterceptors 6. empty
CAR #1, CAR #2, CAR #3 are triples with this design Delta -2 FC - 2 P Def - 1 AV - 6 Hull - 58 1. empty 2. Disruptor 3x - F/P/S 3. 2xInterceptors 4. 2xStrike Fighters 5. Phazer 3x - F/P/S 6. empty 2. 5xStrike Fighters 3. 5xStrike Fighters 4. 5xInterceptors 5. 5xInterceptors 6. empty
United Alliance BBF Delta -1 FC - 4 P Def - 1 AV - 7 Hull - 95 1. Rail Gun, Heavy 4x - F/P/S 2. empty 3. Rail Gun, Heavy 4x - F/P/S 4. Torpedo, Anti-Proton 4x - F/P/S 5. and 6. empty Flak Batteries
BCF Delta -1 FC - 3 P Def - 1 AV - 7 Hull - 75 1. Rail Gun 4x - F/P/S 2. Rail Gun 4x - F/P/S 3-6 empty Flak Batteries
CAD Delta -2 FC - 2 P Def - 2 AV - 5 Hull - 63 1. Mag Cannon 3x - F/P/S 2. Laser, Turbo Heavy 3x - F/P/S 3-6 empty Flak Batteries
The Scourge BBD Delta -1 FC - 4 P Def - 1 AV - 8 Hull - 103 1. Torpedo, Spatial Disruption 5x F/P/S ammo 10 2. Phazer 4x - F/P/S 3. and 4. empty 5. Torpedo, Spatial Disruption 5x F/P/S ammo 10 6. Phazer 4x - F/P/S
Playtesting: The Scourge fought United Alliance First exchange volley did come at range eight as The Scourge player did move and fired second. One shield down - lost Hard Point Phazer Then they fired and killed the UA - BBF (Phazer's knocked down the shield and both ships dumped SDT to exceed it's hull.) Game over.
Second game UA vs CW This game lasted much longer as we forgot to use the Flak Batteries UA shot down two of the three CA's and had taken some hull but nothing major.
1st Place clear and easy winner: The Plague 2nd Place clear and easy winner over the CW: United Alliance 3rd Place - dragging up the rear the Fighter heavy Corporate World
So it looks like The Scourge with the SDT's are far the best ship design. Please, once again, point out where I screwed up. I'm am running a teaching game with these fleets tomorrow. HELP!!!
Thanks, guys.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 25, 2012 12:29:38 GMT -5
Well the Scourge are designed to be the strongest faction, so its no surprise that when you take the strongest faction then load up with the most powerful weapon in the game, that you're going to steamroll the opposition. Th Scourge probably aren't the best choice for a teaching game. . . at least not at equal points levels.
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Post by bubbacleese on Feb 25, 2012 13:33:29 GMT -5
Well, that would explain it. Now I can go back and modify the point The Scourge have to work with.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 25, 2012 14:04:53 GMT -5
My friend/adversary and I have been playing UACS versus a spin-off Corporate Worlds faction and been fairly evenly balanced. I've just designed up a bunch of Scourge ships though (will post the designs here as soon as I have the Scourge ships finished too so that I can include pics as well as stats).
For the life of me though, I cannot see how either of our human fleets could stop them. Our current intention is to game out the six core rulebook scenarios both ways, and to also play our human fleets against the Scourge for each scenario too. But neither of us are expecting to win against a Scourge fleet. We are both expecting it to simply be a question of how long the human fleets can manage to last against the Scourge in a given scenario.
But that's the point... they are the nemesis which destroys civilisations. They are actually quite scary!
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 25, 2012 14:57:00 GMT -5
Well good. Mission accomplished. I had always thought that games involving the Scourge would involve smaller numbers of Scourge ships against much more numerous (but lower quality) human ships. The exact ratio depending on which side you wanted to be the underdog. I'm glad to see people having fun with it.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 25, 2012 15:30:09 GMT -5
Within our version of your universe, we both decided that there was no reason for the Scourge not to apply maximum force; their intention is genocidal, they have no rationale for negotiation, and their focus is upon eradicating the emerging human interstellar civilisation, so it seemed logical that they would concentrate their fleets to do as much harm as possible.
It doesn't make them a suitable fleet for a level and balanced game. That's why we decided to use them as a side factor to our overall campaign, and for the "competition factor" to be which of us can last longer or do the most damage to the Scourge prior to the inevitable human defeat within a scenario.
Have been intending to post the Scourge designs with a view to asking for ideas on how to fight them! About the only thing I can think of so far which might possibly have some effect is to carry enough ion guns to knock out their FCs before they can fire each turn. Miss a FC though, and you'll be on the wrong end of a salvo of SD torps. Pretty much anything can be countered by the Scourge, the SD torps can sweep away standoff weapons too.
I could see humans - if they last long enough - spawning a whole new array of ship designs in an attempt to counter a Scourge incursion.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 25, 2012 15:46:49 GMT -5
Your rationale makes sense. The reason I thought they would be dispersed is that while humans have only their small part of the galaxy to contend with, the Scourge have the whole galaxy to try to cleanse. Concentration of force makes absolute sense, but like the Royal Navy in WWI/WWII, there's a lot of territory to cover and only a limited number of hulls in which to cover it.
Yeah, I would absolutely see every resource at humanity's disposal bent towards R&D & ship design and construction trying to stave off the threat of the Scourge once their nature became known.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 25, 2012 15:54:48 GMT -5
Hmm. We were assuming that humanity was a specific target because the Scourge were tracking the warp point transit signatures and concentrating forces because of the indicators of a significant space-going civilisation.
Re-reading the background fluff though, it does say that the Scourge were spreading out in all directions and seeking to obliterate every race they encountered.
If the latter option, then it makes more sense for Scourge ships to be encountered in smaller numbers.
Either way they are a great foe, and very atmospheric and menacing.
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Post by bubbacleese on Feb 25, 2012 15:56:02 GMT -5
Well for our campaign, which has not started yet, my immediate impression would be for the players to choose either the UA or the CW and leave The Scourge for the campaign master to use as an independent ultimate evil which at times all players would need to band together and stop.
The more I'm typing the more I'm thinking tomorrows game should not include any Scourge ships.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 25, 2012 16:01:31 GMT -5
We added variations on the UACS and Corporate Worlds. After all, it's the United ALLIANCE of Core Worlds, so presumably has more than one shipyard. Ditto for the Corporate Worlds. In fact the core rulebook has a sub-faction of the Corporate Worlds. Offers some options for different fleets within the overall two sides.
There's also a possibility of pirate forces, though there's little profit for pirates in participating in a fleet engagement unless they absolutely have to do so.
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Post by captainquirk on Feb 25, 2012 16:12:29 GMT -5
Oh, and by the way... good luck on the campaign!
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Post by toaster on Feb 27, 2012 0:29:06 GMT -5
You know Harry, those comments about play balance with the scourge should really be in designers notes in the rules or at least the FAQ. I can see it saving a lot of new players a lot of grief as well as helping convince them than scenarios are better than line up and kill.
Robert
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