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Post by verdantgreen on Jan 21, 2016 10:14:17 GMT -5
I'm working on creating a campaign system where the players would start out with 1901-vintage battle fleets and then build up from there, one year to a peacetime campaign turn. The players would control diplomacy, industry, bureaucracy, strategy, and technology. I've put together "tech trees" for the US, Britain, Germany, and Japan.
So, my question is this: If I use Naval Thunder (my favorite naval wargame!) to run this campaign, I would have to bring old tech into Battleship Row or, alternatively, bring new teach back into Clash of Dreadnoughts. Hopefully, this won't come up too much, but I want to account for the possibility of a player hanging on to some rusty grandmotherly old pre-dreadnought all the way to the era of radar and carrier strikes. I suppose there is some precedent, with the Royal Navy's Great War veteran warships still serving in WW2 or the German pre-dreadnought Schleswig-Holstein that served from 1905 all the way to the opening shots of WW2.
I'm asking for advice on this matter. I've played some Clash of Dreadnoughts, at least enough to fall in love with Naval Thunder, but not enough to be a system expert (and I only have limited experience with Battleship Row). Is there any compatibility between ship stats from CoD to BR? I notice that the British ships that served in both World Wars have slightly different stats and point values between the two systems, though I'm not sure how much of that is system difference and how much of it is the modernization of the ships between the wars.
At any rate, thank you for your advice and, if I can get this problem worked out, I'd be happy to share the final document when I get it finished.
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ullr
Lieutenant
Posts: 28
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Post by ullr on Jan 21, 2016 12:39:57 GMT -5
Well, some things carry over others don't. It shouldn't be too had to come up with a system for bring older ships up into WW2. I would say give the crappy AA, add one extra range bracket but only a small about, adjust the armor some and lower the points some. Just make this some simple basic thing nothing to complex. A buddy and I did this for some ships (Iron Duke was one) and made a spread sheet where on one page you punched in the numbers and on the other it would modify things on them by our agreed upon %. We went a little over board and added exta areas/point values for different upgrades (basically did to the Iron Duke what happened to some QEs). Some looking into a ship and what happened to other ships that did get pulled forward would help too.
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Post by verdantgreen on Jan 21, 2016 13:25:26 GMT -5
That doesn't sound too hard. I can only imagine how ineffective the AA battery on some of the pre-dreadnoughts would end up being >_<
I'm imagining one dude with a rifle and some binoculars.
Hopefully this situation won't come up, as I plan on offering something like half a ship's build cost back if it is scrapped. This would represent more of a freeing up of port/maintenance resources and crew than getting the actual financial cost of the ship back.
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ullr
Lieutenant
Posts: 28
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Post by ullr on Jan 25, 2016 12:36:37 GMT -5
Yea pretty much they way it goes. We allowed for some upgrading for a cost. Your scraping idea is pretty good, might need a tweak or two, but should help keep the pres down some.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Jan 26, 2016 9:55:17 GMT -5
Definitely scrapping is the way to go. Love to hear more about this as it goes forward!
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Post by verdantgreen on Feb 7, 2016 21:38:15 GMT -5
Just an update for you folks.
In the rough draft of the system, each belligerent nation has a set of attributes determined by the player(s) of that faction. In a way, the players represent the nation's Admiralty - diplomacy skill doesn't mean the Admiralty is negotiating treaties with foreign powers, just that the Admiralty as influential friends in the government who can keep the fleet in mind while politicking. Here are the attributes:
Here follow the detailed descriptions of each attribute and its function.
Bureaucracy represents the Admiralty’s skill at internal politics. This attribute is primarily used to boost the effectiveness of your other attributes, but also has the ability to increase the number of ships that may be brought into a specific engagement. One must always keep in mind that your nation often needs its fleet to be split up across several theaters of war and, therefore, you will be unable to bring the entire might of your navy into most engagements. This attribute can give you more freedom in this regard, as your bureaucrats are able to convince the war ministers that this particular engagement is of the greatest importance. Before the War, this attribute influences other attributes. During the War, it influences fleet size.
Diplomacy represents the Admiralty’s ability to influence national policy by indicating its readiness for war. An Admiralty with strong connections in the government might be able to buy more time before the War begins by convincing the diplomats that the fleet is unready for battle. The eternal ebb and flow of human misery is beyond the ability of any one individual to control, and sometimes the War will begin of its own accord, but an Admiralty with a high rating in this attribute can attempt to keep the War from happening before it is ready. Once the war begins, this attribute can be used in an attempt to stop the conflict.
Industry represents the portion of your nation’s industrial might that can be called upon to support navy construction. An Admiralty with a low rating in this attribute is often forced to wait as gun factories produce field artillery instead of warship guns while dockworkers are recruited for the infantry instead of being protected. Before the War, Industry produces a pool of resource points that may be spent to acquire ships. One the War begins, everyone has to make do with less available industry, but this attribute can ensure that the navy retains some portion of the available money and facilities.
Strategy represents the Admiralty’s ability to operate against its enemies on a big-picture level. An Admiralty with a high rating in this attribute is staffed by intelligent and insightful individuals who are either experienced in battle or statecraft or are at least talented amateurs. This attribute is of the utmost importance during wartime and can be of use during peacetime as well. Before the War begins, Strategy rolls are made to determine what an enemy is doing this turn or to obfuscate what one’s country is doing. Once the War begins, this attribute is used to gain an advantage in selecting scenarios or laying traps for the enemy.
Technology represents an Admiralty’s dedication to improving its weapons. A fleet backed up by a high rating in this attribute will take to the high seas in the most advanced warships while their enemies must do battle with equipment a generation or more out of date. Uniquely among the attributes, this one performs the exact same function during wartime or peacetime.
Great Britain would have the following ratings:
Bureaucracy 1 - probably used to benefit Technology early in the war and Strategy later. Diplomacy 1 - she was unable to keep herself out of a war that nobody seemed to want. Industry 3 - she produced 39 dreadnought battleships and battlecruisers in 9 years. Strategy 1 - she began the war with no traps and no base for the Grand Fleet. Technology 2 - she had an early lead in technology but ultimately produced many weak ships.
Germany would have the following ratings:
Bureaucracy 1 - probably used to benefit Industry some years and Diplomacy others. Diplomacy 1 - like Britain, she found herself in a War no one wanted. Industry 2 - she had a huge battle fleet but could not match Britain. Strategy 1 - all of her attempts to lure the Grand Fleet over submarine/mine traps failed. Technology 3 - she produced incredibly resilient designs.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 9, 2016 14:36:59 GMT -5
Interesting. Can't wait to see more.
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