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Post by TheDreadnought on Sept 12, 2010 9:40:22 GMT -5
So I've been tossing around the idea of an Age of Sail game. Originally Colonial Battlefleet was going to be that game, before I got so much demand for re-writing well. . . Colonial Battlefleet into a full-featured starship combat system.
The problem with traditional age of sail is that its not very dependent on the hardware, which is interesting to me, and more dependent on very slow maneuver and morale. Not so interesting.
So instead of Age of Sail, I'm thinking about a more fantastical "Star Galleons" game. Age of Sail in space. Concept runs literally anything from a fantasy style actual sailing ships in space (think Spelljammer) with cannons and boarding actions and stuff. To more of a sci-fi game where the technology dictates age of sail style combat. Maybe solar sails and such.
Thoughts?
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unclejoe
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Post by unclejoe on Sept 17, 2010 21:24:05 GMT -5
A playable actual Age of Sail game would be great IMO. Something a step or two above Pirates of the Spanish Main, but maybe a step below Wooden Ships and Iron Men.
What makes those battles interesting is when you can have quite a few ships on the table, but most systems are so cumbersome that you cant do that in a reasonable amount of time.
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theoz
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Post by theoz on Sept 18, 2010 7:28:04 GMT -5
I'd like to see an Age of Sail game, but what I think is needed is a game where the player isn't trying to be 10 or 20 or 30 individual ship captains, but instead is trying to be the Admiral; making the decisions the Admiral would make, not the captains.
Sailing, shooting, and sinking should be made as simple as possible. The focus should be on what the player tells squadrons of ships to do, and how well those squadrons can understand and do what is wanted. Command and control, in other words. Perhaps some system where the player is forced to think a turn or two ahead, from a delay in sending commands to squadrons. I'd say that the Admiral can always tell his flagship where to go and what to do without any delay (that's one reason why Admirals tend to pick the biggest ship they've got as the flagship), he could tell the rest of the ships in the flagship's squadron what to do with a one-turn delay, and everyone else with at least a two-turn delay (more if it's a really big battle or the fleets are intermingled).
To complicate matters, the subordinate admirals (squadron commanders) could be given ratings for how aggresive or cowardly they are, so even when they get the admiral's orders there'd be a die roll for what they actually do.
To get more movement out of the game, I'd probably fudge the distance/time scale. Max effective gun range was about 600 yards (max range was about twice that, maybe) and a ship at fighting sail (topsails, jibs, and spanker) would go at about 3 knots max (6000 yards per hour) so make the game turn about 6 minutes and ships will move one cannon-shot-distance per move.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Sept 18, 2010 18:43:25 GMT -5
Interesting you brought that up. I have given a lot of thought to designing a game w exactly that style of command and control system. Didn't know if anybody else would find that fun.
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theoz
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Post by theoz on Sept 18, 2010 19:07:50 GMT -5
Interesting you brought that up. I have given a lot of thought to designing a game w exactly that style of command and control system. Didn't know if anybody else would find that fun. I know I would, but then, I'm a naval history buff who happens to play wargames and RPGs. In fact, I approached the idea of the C&C rules from the RPG viewpoint; putting the player into the role of the Admiral, instead of making him be 30 captains. To make it a more salable product, I think you'd need to have a Design-Your-Own system for fleets and battles where players purchase their C&C right along with their ships. I think it would also be necessary to develop a system for deciding what out-of-command ships do that would be fast and simple to use; maybe a simple flowchart or a couple of die rolls? But I'm still not sure anyone would buy it. Besides me.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Sept 19, 2010 17:42:03 GMT -5
I'm thinking it would have to be more of a sci-fi game to actually sell.
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theoz
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Post by theoz on Sept 19, 2010 20:06:34 GMT -5
I'm thinking it would have to be more of a sci-fi game to actually sell. Yeah, but then I probably wouldn't buy it.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Sept 20, 2010 10:12:13 GMT -5
What if I included a "convert to age of sail" section in the back?
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unclejoe
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Post by unclejoe on Sept 20, 2010 12:48:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not really into sci-fi Age of Sail either. :/
And I agree that it would be great to finally have an ADMIRAL'S level game of AoS. Trying to make decisions like 10 captains is tedious, but making decisions as one (or a few) Admirals could be a lot of fun and not something that I've ever seen before, actually.
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theoz
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Post by theoz on Sept 20, 2010 15:12:07 GMT -5
What if I included a "convert to age of sail" section in the back? That might work. Frankly, if the C&C rules could be made to work, they'd have potential for translation to a lot of other genres.
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Post by warchariot on Sept 20, 2010 19:29:56 GMT -5
What if I included a "convert to age of sail" section in the back? That might work. Frankly, if the C&C rules could be made to work, they'd have potential for translation to a lot of other genres. I agree, it would be nice to have C&C rules that work.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Sept 21, 2010 10:22:38 GMT -5
Yeah, essentially the C&C rules is what I'd be selling. So it might not actually be a bad idea to release a series of settings for a core set of C&C rules or something. Just have it be a game line like Naval Thunder.
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Post by trent on Oct 4, 2010 23:39:13 GMT -5
I was actually just starting brainstorm some rules for AoS after we played Naval Thunder recently. If you do this right then I will surely pick it up! Especially if it's compatible with the Pirates styrene ships. I played WS&IM about 20 years ago, and I still own the rules. I think the playaid that would bring it up to modern wargaming standards would be navigation planning cards. Something like planned movement in Roborally, where you play the movement cards face down. When you reveal movement you end up with all sorts of kooky interplay between ships because they react so slowly to one another. It's sort of controlled chaos. That's my $0.02 idea for you. But if you can do AoS well as you've done WWII and space-age then I'll be picking it up for sure.
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Post by afilter on Dec 1, 2010 15:08:25 GMT -5
If a true AoS rule set was released I would be interested. There are some great minis out there, but I have not come across a rule set that is very usable. Pirates was fun with the kids, but would want something more as stated above.
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Post by warchariot on Dec 1, 2010 23:27:11 GMT -5
We've played Fire as She Bears which is a fast fun set of rules and has handled about any size battle. Not sure if they are around any more, but try a search for them if you want to know more about them. Okay, I found where they are available: www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=18616&it=1&filters=0_0_0&manufacturers_id=594and there is a Yahoo group. Note: Dread, hope this is okay. Don't mean to plug another game and wouldn't think of it if you had a set of rules for this time period. Just trying to be helpful.
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Post by davethelost on Dec 10, 2010 10:47:36 GMT -5
I like Theoz's suggestions above on C&C.
The problem I have with most AoS games is that either they require you to be a sailor to fight your ships effectively or the sails are really just for show and the game could be set in any era.
If you can solve that, give us rules that make manuver feel like sailing ships, but also factor in the C&C issues unique to AoS I will definitely be interested.
The idea of solar sailed sci-fi ships could be interesting.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Dec 10, 2010 11:07:19 GMT -5
So for a hypothetical AoS game, would people be comfortable with this being a hex game? Would simplify a lot of things if we're going to do a limited C&C type situation.
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Post by kenh01 on Dec 10, 2010 11:40:13 GMT -5
Hexes worked well for Wooden Ships and Iron Men, so I don't see why not. The only problem I can see is that it limits your movement into the wind (only 6 directions!)
Ken
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Bluebear
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Post by Bluebear on Dec 10, 2010 12:16:49 GMT -5
Th other problem with hexes is drawing them onto a table top. About the only way I see to do this is to either buy an expensive mat (usually too small to start with) or to get something like 1/8th inch MDF and try and draw them yourself (after painting the surface blue) . . . not an easy task.
-- Jeff
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Post by afilter on Dec 10, 2010 12:36:47 GMT -5
So for a hypothetical AoS game, would people be comfortable with this being a hex game? Would simplify a lot of things if we're going to do a limited C&C type situation. Hexes work for me. The Mars like Hot Mats can be aquired for about $30 and you can get the hexes in various sizes. I am considering using Hexes for War at Sea anyway instead of the Square sectors. For those that want to do it cheaper I have made them on a table top using a template or SHQ has a nice terrain system using 4" foam hexes that I have used for land games.
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