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Post by toaster on Nov 3, 2010 13:43:25 GMT -5
I mentioned armed freighters over on the wish list thread but I've had an idea on how they could work so I thought I'd throw it out here and see what people can make of it, I hope to play test it soon but if anyone has ideas to refine it jump on in.
Armed freighters are built as for fleet auxiliaries but 3 hardpoints are replaced with equipment slots to represent cargo bays.
In some scenarios the equipment slots will represent cargo and the number that survive (since these equipment slots can be destroyed by the appropriate hardpoint critical) will affect the victory level.
However this also allows the construction of a dedicated mine layers, 4 slots of mines. Troop ships, 4 slots of security marines. And assault transports, 1 flak battery and 3 boarding marines. And of course other combinations. I imagine that the fleet books will include some new equipment options that will allow a larger range of choices as well.
Assault transports with large numbers of boarding marines may be a bit unbalanced in standard games, but perfect for a 'capture the space station intact' scenario.
So tell what you think.
Robert PS. I hope that this thread does better than my last post to house rules that seemed to stop all discussion on it.
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Post by kenh01 on Nov 3, 2010 13:56:03 GMT -5
I like the concept, it has a lot of potential in a campaign environment.
Ken
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Post by TheDreadnought on Nov 3, 2010 14:47:38 GMT -5
Maybe to give them a role bonus you can say they can take double the normal number per slot? Dunno if that would be overdoing it. But if they are really intended as scenario ships might not matter.
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Post by toaster on Nov 3, 2010 15:48:29 GMT -5
Doubling ammo and equipment capacity was my first idea for armed freighters before I thought of replacing hardpoints with equipment slots, it might work if freighters are limited to size 2 or 3 but a size 5 assault transport with 40 marines(B) is a little to much I think, after all these are freighters and I don't think they need a role bonus as we want them to be weaker than true warships. Still some playtesting should help firm up the idea, I've a FT scenario that I will rewrite for CBF and if I can get it done in time I'll run it at the club this weekend.
Robert
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Post by toaster on Nov 3, 2010 18:07:24 GMT -5
Just reread the rules for fleet tenders and they are limited to heavy cruisers so that invalidates some of my comments above, though the ability to make size 4 or 5 bulk freighters may be useful in some scenarios.
Robert
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Post by fastgit on Nov 4, 2010 16:07:09 GMT -5
Armed freighters are a neat idea... but would they really stand much chance against a warship?
I know that various (most notably the Germans in WWI & WWII... because they had no choice) countries made use of these... but they relied upon stealth and subterfuge and only in rare instances (maybe never?) could they win a stand-up fight against a purpose-built warship.
As such, I have a few questions: How would they be used in a campaign game? And what would their purpose be? Why would a faction spend the cash to build one? I know we're not talking Q-ships... so, what role would they fill?
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kashre
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 110
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Post by kashre on Nov 5, 2010 2:00:07 GMT -5
Armed freighters are a neat idea... but would they really stand much chance against a warship? I know that various (most notably the Germans in WWI & WWII... because they had no choice) countries made use of these... but they relied upon stealth and subterfuge and only in rare instances (maybe never?) could they win a stand-up fight against a purpose-built warship. As such, I have a few questions: How would they be used in a campaign game? And what would their purpose be? Why would a faction spend the cash to build one? I know we're not talking Q-ships... so, what role would they fill? I can see the use tbh. If its a big "conquer the stars" campaign you could make them assault transports and use them as escortees for a "land the troops" kind of mission. You could also use them as the prey for commerce raiding missions... each side in the campaign designates X number of RDF ships for commerce raiding and protection, and use them to generate a battle or two each turn that impacts the overall economics of the game. Or if you're running a campaign on a map that utilizes some kind of line-of-supply system, you could have them go along with an advanced fleet to extend their in-supply lifespan. either way, it would be nice to have civilian options that were not limited to the flimsy little freighters from the convoy raid scenario in the book... those things tend to die horribly
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Post by toaster on Nov 5, 2010 4:49:05 GMT -5
There is a wonderful scenario in More Thrust, the Battle of Stig IV, which features an engagement between two corporations trying to secure sole rights to a valuable world, since government regulations won't allow them any military vessels bigger than an anti pirate cutter armed freighters are the main combatant. I've statted it up for CBF and hope to play it tomorrow, if it works I'll post the stats here.
Also the Vatta's War series by Elisabeth Moon sees a lot of action by privateers running what are esentially armed freighters with military units quite limited in size and availiability. It would make a great campaign.
Robert
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Post by jchen101 on Nov 5, 2010 11:40:06 GMT -5
I really like this idea as it could make for very characterful campaigns. I'd suggest that freighters only get one quarter to one half the hull points of an equivalent tonnage warship, to reflect commercial-grade construction. Perhaps you could give an incentive for their use by counting only half their tonnage for point balance purposes.
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Post by toaster on Nov 6, 2010 2:53:45 GMT -5
Play test successful. Two rival corporations (Ingamoan and H.O.V.) have interests on the world of Stig IV and in an attempt to improve there position Ingamoan have hired the mercenary group 'The Satyr Brigade' escorted by the company Frigate and 3 scouts plus the pocket carrier Vasquo hired from Ubix Interfreight the troop transport Satyr is attempting to make orbit around Stig IV so that it can deploy its troops via landing craft. H.O.V. cannot allow this and they have 3 armed freighters in system with an escorting CLS. Setup: Place Stig IV at one end of the playing area, one freighter is in orbit awaiting loading while the other 2 plus the CLS are standing off waiting, stationery within 5 hexes. H.O.V.'s shuttle, the Stygian Dirt Rat, will arrive at the beginning of turn 6 to load the waiting freighter (or join the fight that by then should be raging). Ingamoan places a warp point at least 20 hexes from the planet and deploys all its ships from it (the scouts may deploy using stealth). Victory: If the Satyr can spend a turn in orbit with at least 9 marine squads available then Ingamoan wins, both side get bonus points for keeping valuable assets alive, for a full run down check out More Thrust, free from GZG. Attachments:
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Post by toaster on Nov 6, 2010 3:00:28 GMT -5
Heres the second fleet for the battle above. On my play test I took out both the Vasquo's weapons on the second turn and it failed to repair them till the final turn of the game so was out of the game from then on. I almost won when I criticaled the Satyr's engines while it was on a collision course with the Stig IV but it made its repair roll and 2 turns later the H.O.V CLS was destroyed effectively ending the game although 2 of my freighters which had been damaged near the beginning managed to successfully reach the warp point and translate out. Attachments:
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Post by warchariot on Nov 6, 2010 8:56:58 GMT -5
"You could also use them as the prey for commerce raiding missions... "I have thought about this for BSG using the idea from the new series to hide colonial fighters and draw a small Basestar fleet in. In this case they would be a type of Q-ship.
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