Colonial Battlefleet Babylon 5

[kashre]

Finally got around to working on some B5 visual SSDs.

In order to get the ships to feel right to me, I had to play fast and loose with a couple of the rules, things having to do with hardpoints: firing arcs, number of weapons allowed etc.

Also, since the CGI model of the Hyperion doesn't look like it would have any transverse on the forward guns, I made them into a spinal mount type arc and gave them a mass-free upgrade from Anti-proton to Anti-neutron torps.

We'll see if I jacked up the balance too much with my changes when we playtest it on Sunday.

[warchariot]

Interesting, I haven't look at B5 in some time but this looks like a good representation of the weapons and systems as I remember them. Also, great looking SSDs

I do wonder why you made the Omega such a small ship, particularly since you upped the guns on the hard points? I would build it as at least a size 4, maybe a small 5. That way you can put five guns on a mount. You might also consider making up a new gun, just use the weapons chart as a guide, that way you can stay within the hard point range.

If you up the hull size, I would change the role to Battleline, which I believe is more in line with what ship does.

I admit when I started building BSG Battlestars I started about this same size (see Vultures to the Feast replay) but Dread had already made a Pegasus that was in the 750 range so I upped mine. Also look at Dread's sample ST ship, it is also in the size 4+ range. Also look at his SW replay and those ships. I think Dread looks at role, size, and what part it played in the show to determine size, after all, you can't have Enterprise shot down every game, it wouldn't be Star Trek. My point is, if you want more protection and guns, use a bigger hull. Come on, after all very word Dreadnought brings up pictures of big ships.

[kashre]

Nov 6, 2010 9:50:49 GMT -5 warchariot said:

Interesting, I haven't look at B5 in some time but this looks like a good representation of the weapons and systems as I remember them. Also, great looking SSDs

I do wonder why you made the Omega such a small ship, particularly since you upped the guns on the hard points? I would build it as at least a size 4, maybe a small 5. That way you can put five guns on a mount. You might also consider making up a new gun, just use the weapons chart as a guide, that way you can stay within the hard point range.

If you up the hull size, I would change the role to Battleline, which I believe is more in line with what ship does.

I admit when I started building BSG Battlestars I started about this same size (see Vultures to the Feast replay) but Dread had already made a Pegasus that was in the 750 range so I upped mine. Also look at Dread's sample ST ship, it is also in the size 4+ range. Also look at his SW replay and those ships. I think Dread looks at role, size, and what part it played in the show to determine size, after all, you can't have Enterprise shot down every game, it wouldn't be Star Trek. My point is, if you want more protection and guns, use a bigger hull. Come on, after all very word Dreadnought brings up pictures of big ships.

Well, there's a couple of reasons I made the Omega that size and not bigger. The main reason is that the number and type of weapons was the drving force dictating the mass. To give it the equipment which it appeared to have in the show (backed up by my B5 Wars books, not cannon, I know, but practical) its pretty much stuck where it is, if I made it much bigger there'd be a bunch of space with nothing in it.

Also, aside from the possible exception of some of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds Earthforce is the new kid on the block in terms of interstellar travel, so I reckon their ships will be a bit smaller and less effective.

Plus I need to have room to grow, and room for other races ships which will probably be a lot bigger. The Poseidon carrier is giant compared to an Omega, and so is a Sharlin... if I made the Omega 750, I might not have enough room to scale the really big ships up.

And on top of all of that, there are no shields and since lasers are a main heavy weapon in the B5 universe I wanted to keep armor low, like 3-5 points for most ships. Which means a lack of equipment that makes up a lot of the mass of vanilla CB ships.

Also, I kind of thought the same thing as you about the Omega being a battleline ship at first, but when I thought about it harder I changed my mind. First, again being the new kids on the block I think the EA will have slightly worse electronics than other races, which will translate into less firecontrol, not more. Second, EA ships don't tend to have a lot of heavy weapon mounts, so no need for extra Firecon to control weapons, and third, and most importantly I think, the Warlock is the only EA ship with artificial gravity. Since the other bonus for battleline is very efficient damage control parties, I didn't think it fit with the Omega... I can only imagine what a pain the butt it must be to try and run around fixing stuff on a maneuvering ship with no gravity. Although the Warlock would definitely be a battleline ship.

The one thing I am going to change though, I think, is bumping the mass a little bit and converting the "particle cannons" from gattling lasers to gattling ACs... I already threw out the limits for numbers of weapons per hardpoint (this version of the Omega has 2 strike fighter sqds and 2 interceptors in a single hardpoint on a size 3 ship)... I made the gat lasers initially just because that was the only way to get 6 on a hardpoint. But really, I think the particle cannons from the show are shorter ranged and more all-purpose than dedicated anti-fighter weapons.

Oh and eventually I am going to end up having to come up with some new guns... I was thinking of some ships that have single large weapons, like the Vorchan... I figure I'll just take an existing gun, double its damage rating and mass, and say that if it gets a penetration roll it scores 2 crits instead of 1. Seems like an easy and still fairly balanced way to handle spinal mounts.

Thanks for the input!

[warchariot]

Well you have put a lot more thought into this than me! I'm not sure when or if Dread will do a fleetbook based on a B5 style of ships, so keep up the work! Be interested in hearing what happens during play.

[TheDreadnought]

Yeah, won't be anytime soon for that style fleetbook, so by all means, keep up the good work!

[toaster]

I was thinking that the heavy slicing beams seen on the show should be penetration D10 but other than that it looks good. I like the interceptors rule, I was trying to figure how to do that myself, the only thing to watch will be defining which weapons are affected by it, but since your custom desinging your weapons it's not the issue it would be if you tried to shoehorn the std CB weapons into B5.
I look forward to seeing more

Robert

[kashre]

Actually, I didn't custom design my weapons, I just changed their names to make the more Babylon-Fivey sounding

I have always thought that it was more intuitive to have projectiles be lower pen and lasers higher pen, but CB isn't balanced like that and if I made the lasers D10 pen then I really would have to create new weapons, which I don't want to do. I'm already playing with the balance enough by messing with the firing arcs and hardpoint restrictions. That's why I made the armor so low, so the lasers can still be useful as the long range weapons.

As for what weapons are effected, basically anything that is seen shooting a beam on the show will have a "beam" tag next to it on the SCS and be immune to the interceptor bonus.

[toaster]

I've been sticking weapon mass and stats into a spreadsheet and I think I've just about got a design formula so that weapons can be designed, I'll post it if you think it would help.

Robert

[kashre]

I would be interested in seeing that.

[valthonis]

I would be very interested in seeing that as well.

[toaster]

I'll post it tomorrow, it's on my work computer (something to do in the down time) and I'm stuck at home with a sick kid today, sorry about that.

Robert

[warchariot]

Family first!

[valthonis]

Agreed!

[valthonis]

Ok, I started off using the formula and found a few things didn't fit right compared to existing weapons, but still worked very well for getting in the ballpark.

Here's my initial attempt at a bunch of laser based weapons from B5Wars.

Keep in mind, I tried to anchor it to CB using the existing Heavy Laser.

Attachments:

[warchariot]

I understand why you did the -1s, but I don't like them. I have never liked the idea of taking away from a die roll. I think it's because I feel like I earn it. In FOG (Field of Glory), poor troops have to reroll all sixes, it just does seem right.

[valthonis]

Well something has to make it stand out as poorer than the other choices and you can either give them -1 to die rolls or give everything else a +1 which sounds less ideal.

Keep in mind, I'm not designing these to be integrated into the tech trees, just as options for converting b5wars ships and sometimes they just are that poor.

[warchariot]

I get it, it will be interesting to see what Dread comes up with once/if he gets to a B5 style Fleetbook.

[valthonis]

I'm still compiling B5wars weapons to convert everything over. Stay tuned!

[valthonis]

34 races and 178 weapons later...
Wonder if I can truely make those each unique.

[valthonis]

I'm a little further along, got the weapons documented, traits have been applied, attack and penetrate dice have been assigned, just need to assign shield and hull damages.

I've introduced a few new weapon traits as well as certain weapons needed something extra as they were special in B5Wars.

V - Variable Weapon Damage
Certain weapons, namely Antimatter based weapons, do more damage the more squarely you hit the target To represent this use the following:
--Attack Dice roll = Range: -25% of normal damage
--Attack Dice roll = +1 or +2 range: normal damage
--Attack Dice roll = +3 or greater range: +25% of normal damage

FL - Flash Weapon Damage
Certain weapons will damage a target with a splashing effect. The weapon won't generally penetrate the hull deeply but is adapt to stripping systems from the exterior of the hull. For Flash Damage Weapons, roll 1d10 against all criticals versus 2d10.

P - Plasma Weapon Damage
Certain weapons fire a super heated ball of plasma at their targets. This plasma cools as it travels to its target and thus is very capable of burning through a ships hull at closer range. To represent this, use the following.
--Attack Dice roll = +3 or greater range: +1 to penetrate dice

EM - Electromagnetic
Certain weapons use a highly charged electromagnetic discharge to attack their targets, these weapons are highly adapt at disrupting systems as well as causing physical damage to a ships hull. To represent these weapons, use the following: +1 to critical hit dice rolls


Still working out the cost of the upgrades but at the moment I want to keep the feel of b5wars as much as possible and thus the feel of babylon 5 in general.



Also, b5wars has a very diverse range system, range penalties in general from -2 per hex upwards of -1 per 5 hexes. Because of this, the normal d6 and d10 does not map ideally, in my opinion, nor does just adding in a d8. I will admit, this by far will probably be the biggest disagreement for this conversion, but I feel its both needed, fun, and flavorful to b5wars. (keep in mind, 150+ unique weapons)

I'm making use d4s, d6s, d8s, d10s, and a very few d12s.
Fighters primarily make use of d4s for dog fighting purposes and antiship fighters/bombers pulling in weapons like d6s. Many ship antifighter weapons are d4s and fewer d6s.

Again, I know many will disagree with me here, but this is my direction.