Bluebear
Commander
He who laughs
Posts: 405
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Post by Bluebear on Dec 8, 2010 18:34:56 GMT -5
Ah, tell it to HMS Hood . . . or as the old Bill Cosby "Noah" routine said, "How long can you tread water?" . . . sometimes it just happens.
-- Jeff
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Post by fastgit on Dec 9, 2010 14:51:25 GMT -5
. . . sometimes it just happens. True. But it's still tragic...
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shigure
Commander
IJN Shigure
Posts: 356
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Post by shigure on Dec 9, 2010 23:47:04 GMT -5
Were there any French cruisers or just the French DD's or in this case Super DD's? Could you post an OOB?
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Post by regiamarina on Dec 10, 2010 18:49:25 GMT -5
Shigure
it was a mixed cruiser squadron of French and Germans, with destroyer support, up against a British cruiser squadron of heavy and light cruisers. Can't remember the exact make up of ships sorry.
Martin
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shigure
Commander
IJN Shigure
Posts: 356
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Post by shigure on Dec 11, 2010 0:53:16 GMT -5
That answers my question. The RN cruisers had French and German cruisers they had to concentrate their main armament on. The RN's usual 2x2 4" secondaries would have had to contend with the DD's.
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jdon
Lieutenant JG
Posts: 11
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Post by jdon on Feb 9, 2011 12:18:05 GMT -5
I have several ideas but want to see what others propose before I mention any so that I don't influence any creativity. It's been two months, and the discussion seems to have stopped. Let's hear your ideas!
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Post by afilter on Feb 9, 2011 12:49:23 GMT -5
I have several ideas but want to see what others propose before I mention any so that I don't influence any creativity. It's been two months, and the discussion seems to have stopped. Let's hear your ideas! I am sticking with my "chase the Salvo" action for DDs as I posted early on. The only change would be it applies to main battery weapons. In fact if it is not added as an update it will just be a standing house rule in our games as it just makes sense and is historically based.
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jdon
Lieutenant JG
Posts: 11
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Post by jdon on Feb 9, 2011 15:11:58 GMT -5
Sorry, what I meant was: let's hear TheDreadnought's ideas.
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Post by BattleshipOverkill on Feb 13, 2011 0:32:19 GMT -5
Nisk and myself played our first game today that involved destroyers and we have a few questions about how the phases work.
The way the rules are set now is to allow "heavier ships...advantage over lighter ships during the shooting phase as the weight and volume of their fire during the early shooting steps can suppress the enemy's ability to respond in the later steps". As I understand it, the time frame for complete turn is 4 - 5 minutes. So, if a destroyer is sunk during the Battleship or Cruiser shooting phase does that mean that the destroyer moved in combat for 4 - 5 minutes without firing a shot?
Would it not balance out to have all fire occur at the same time for all unit types and record all damage at the end of the turn? This way a destroyer would still be able to return fire even when being shelled by a larger ship. A modifier could be added to the destroyers fire if it is under heavy fire from a larger ship.
Just a suggestion. I haven't played the game enough yet to have a complete understanding of all the rules.
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Post by warchariot on Feb 13, 2011 12:52:53 GMT -5
Would it not balance out to have all fire occur at the same time for all unit types and record all damage at the end of the turn? This way a destroyer would still be able to return fire even when being shelled by a larger ship. A modifier could be added to the destroyers fire if it is under heavy fire from a larger ship. The time frame is abstract, and all ships would be shooting all of the time. The BB and CA don't stop firing during the DDs phase, and the DDs are firing earlier. The idea is the bigger ships have more armor, fire power, fire control,ect. Also look at torpdeos. They fire and then ran until the end of the turn before they damage. Do they take 5 minutes to get to every target? So again, this is a game mechanic to speed play and keep things moving smoothly. And it works well:)
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Post by BattleshipOverkill on Feb 13, 2011 13:56:39 GMT -5
The time frame is abstract, and all ships would be shooting all of the time. The BB and CA don't stop firing during the DDs phase, and the DDs are firing earlier... So, even if the destroyer is destroyed in the BB or CA phase you still do it's gun action as though it was shooting in an earlier phase?
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Post by warchariot on Feb 13, 2011 15:57:35 GMT -5
The time frame is abstract, and all ships would be shooting all of the time. The BB and CA don't stop firing during the DDs phase, and the DDs are firing earlier... So, even if the destroyer is destroyed in the BB or CA phase you still do it's gun action as though it was shooting in an earlier phase? Sorry to confuse, no DDs that are dead are gone and don't fire in their phase. Remember, the flotilla is serveral ships and the BB/CAs can't choose to fire at this one, then the next . They fire at them as a whole and do damage to them one at a time. This protects the DDs so some of them can fire. Also, if the big guns are shooting up your DDs, then they are doing their job by drawing off fire from your big ships. We played a In Harms Way game once a long time ago where my Japanese BB shot it's 14s at a lone Torpdeo Boat, finally killing it, but it was then left open to the American CA fire. It is a game we all long remember.
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Post by afilter on Feb 13, 2011 18:08:06 GMT -5
So, even if the destroyer is destroyed in the BB or CA phase you still do it's gun action as though it was shooting in an earlier phase? Sorry to confuse, no DDs that are dead are gone and don't fire in their phase. Remember, the flotilla is serveral ships and the BB/CAs can't choose to fire at this one, then the next . They fire at them as a whole and do damage to them one at a time. This protects the DDs so some of them can fire. Also, if the big guns are shooting up your DDs, then they are doing their job by drawing off fire from your big ships. We played a In Harms Way game once a long time ago where my Japanese BB shot it's 14s at a lone Torpdeo Boat, finally killing it, but it was then left open to the American CA fire. It is a game we all long remember. I think you might be confusing CoD and BR. In CoD DDs are a flotilla and in BR they are single ships.
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Post by fastgit on Feb 13, 2011 19:28:40 GMT -5
I think you might be confusing CoD and BR. In CoD DDs are a flotilla and in BR they are single ships. What he said. And in CoD you have the choice of targeting either the flotilla, or the CL flotilla leader (assuming there is one)... but not both. That's not an issue in BR as each ship is targeted separately.
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Post by BattleshipOverkill on Feb 13, 2011 20:48:23 GMT -5
Thanks for your feedback, gentlemen. That make it a little more clear for me.
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Post by warchariot on Feb 13, 2011 22:36:22 GMT -5
I think you might be confusing CoD and BR. In CoD DDs are a flotilla and in BR they are single ships. What he said. And in CoD you have the choice of targeting either the flotilla, or the CL flotilla leader (assuming there is one)... but not both. That's not an issue in BR as each ship is targeted separately. You're right of course, guess I should stick with RotB.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Feb 14, 2011 10:01:11 GMT -5
Here are the ideas I was considering as changes to Battleship Row in the next update. What do you guys think?
Destroyers become base target number 10+ All guns smaller than 5.5" become DMG 1 Guns 5.5" - 6" become damage 2. All others as-is Evasive action costs a flat 3" of movement.
Somebody want to try these out and see if these make destroyers a little too powerful??
What other stuff should I include in the next update?
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Post by BattleshipOverkill on Feb 14, 2011 16:40:52 GMT -5
Here are the ideas I was considering as changes to Battleship Row in the next update. What do you guys think? Destroyers become base target number 10+ All guns smaller than 5.5" become DMG 1 Guns 5.5" - 6" become damage 2. All others as-is Evasive action costs a flat 3" of movement. Somebody want to try these out and see if these make destroyers a little too powerful?? What other stuff should I include in the next update? Nisk and myself may have a chance to play again this weekend. If so we'll be glad to try them out for ya, sir.
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jdon
Lieutenant JG
Posts: 11
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Post by jdon on Feb 14, 2011 18:55:12 GMT -5
I like the evasive action idea, just because otherwise it's pretty hard for destroyers to close a target.
The other possibility, not mentioned, would be to reduce the Secondary Battery rate of fire modifier to -1, instead of -2. I'd be inclined to try that before making so many other changes.
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Post by fastgit on Feb 14, 2011 19:40:02 GMT -5
Destroyers become base target number 10+ All guns smaller than 5.5" become DMG 1 Guns 5.5" - 6" become damage 2. All others as-is Evasive action costs a flat 3" of movement. Those sound as though they capture the flavor of "Chase the Salvos" as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm curious to see how they work out...
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