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Post by fastgit on Mar 16, 2011 18:24:59 GMT -5
There is no generic, pick one and go for it faction benefit list because faction benefits are not generic. Well said. When I design faction benefits... I do so from a systems-perspective. By this, I mean that I don't design one faction benefit at a time, in isolation of the others. Rather, I design the benefits for all the factions in a particular universe at the same time. In this way, they're balanced... and they add the necessary flavor I'm looking for. To use one of Dread's high-g examples... if Faction A had a bonus that gave them +1 to either dogfights (or perhaps a +1 for opposing units to hit them as they can pull crazy-high-g maneuvers) or boarding actions, I would design a bonus for Faction B that either -- to some extent -- mitigated Faction A's benefit or hit Faction A where it hurts... maybe more deadly anti-fighter weapons, or improved shield tech, or... you get the point. So, I guess I agree with what Toaster (with an 'E') said. That being the case, maybe what would help captainquirk is, rather than a list of generic faction benefits, a list/explanation of "things" that can be modified (and possible ramifications of said changes)?
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Post by fastgit on Mar 16, 2011 18:26:49 GMT -5
Or, you could just read what Warchariot posted.
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Post by captainquirk on Mar 16, 2011 19:08:40 GMT -5
OK, points taken, and thanks to everyone who has commented. It probably will settle down a bit when I've played more games, that's true.
However, fastgits comment about suggestions around what could be modified is a nice idea and it would help with the learning curve. And since I'm not the first or only person to ask about this, it seems like it's a learning curve for other people too, which I think means it would be useful to address in some way, even if only with a paragraph or so of things to consider when developing factions.
What pretty much IS my sticking point right now is indeed what can I modify without it being overpowering or stupidly unbalanced. The discussion here has given me a bit more understanding about it though.
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Post by toaster on Mar 16, 2011 21:17:09 GMT -5
Even the list of what can be played with is situational and wide ranging. You can play with anything, bonus to shield damage, bonus to hull damage, bonus to fire con, bonus to shield recharge, bonus to armour, bonus to penetration. The're all availiable and obviously some will counter others but if you try to put them all on one fleet you may find your opponent replying with, "My fleet has no points limits for scenarios and I'll field all 400 of my ships plus every rock in my garden as an asteroid fortress thank you very much". Thats why working these things out in advance in a gentlemanly fashion is so important, or if your hosting the games design both sides and let your opponent pick which force they wish to play.
As Jon Tuffley says "You brought the rules, do what you want with them."
Faction benefit is your chance to play games designer, it's loose and undefined because it's meant to be loose and undefined. The only way to figure it out is to slap ships on the table and play games.
Another good question to ask is "Would I be willing to play against it? If the answer is yes with a vanilla fleet, its probably balanced. If the answer is yes if I could have +whatever to some system then you just figured out how to balance it. If the answer is "You set up your ships on this table and I'll take my ships and hop on that bus", then it's unbalanced.
Robert
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Post by kealios on Mar 17, 2011 10:25:52 GMT -5
Excellent responses, and to TheDreadnought, I'd be kicking people in the teeth to defend my own product as well, so you're all good I suppose I was a little bitchy in my criticisms. Considering the price I paid for the game, and how valuable I think it will be going forward for my space gaming needs, I dont have much room to complain...which is OBVIOUSLY why I AM, right? If I thought your game was crap, I wouldnt give my two cents and would move on! But I think the product is ace, and wanted something a little more...so my apologies back. There have been some really good responses and the points presented give more clarity on how we should handle the benefits. I still dont think that having a list of "acceptable" benefits would be out of line, as CaptainQuirk states to help us n00bs get the ball rolling, but I can see why this wasnt done. As to the disclaimers in the book regarding tournament play and optional rules...well, I stand guilty of reading the book cover to cover, and then "remembering" or "not remembering" certain things and going back to find them, and this apparently was one of the "not remembered" points! Its kind of like when I was telling my friend about how to build factions...and then told him how to build a fleet, with limited schematics available, and suddenly I couldnt find it ("I swear it was in here!") until we opened the scenario chapter and found it on first page Happy St. Patrick's Day! Im wearing my kilt and my green today!
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