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Post by TheDreadnought on Mar 28, 2011 14:59:51 GMT -5
Yeah, the original CB rules had rules for using rail guns for flak barrages at range, since that is what we saw in the series. I had intended to put that into MvM. I think I just forgot about it to be honest. Maybe I'll come up with a 'freebie rule' and post it here, then incorporate it into the next update.
That's a good question though. . . would the ability to do distance flak make it too hard on the Cyborg fighters?
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Post by irishthump on Mar 28, 2011 15:07:15 GMT -5
That's a good question though. . . would the ability to do distance flak make it too hard on the Cyborg fighters? Not just fighters, it would also hurt the Cyborg capital ships as they use missiles almost exclusively. Perhaps have it so that it can only used in one arc per turn? That would allow the Cyborgs to out maneuver it with missiles. Or allow it to be split between different arcs but doing this would make it significantly weaker.
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Post by coldsteel on Mar 28, 2011 17:04:32 GMT -5
What I am suggesting is not a screen or wide area effect. It is a single hex flak barrage further away from the ship. All the AC on a hard point must be used on the same hex. The range limit would be equal to the number of AC on the hard point. A ship with 4 AC on a single hard point could only target a single hex, but up to 4 hexes away and in arc.
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Post by warchariot on Mar 28, 2011 19:35:31 GMT -5
What I am suggesting is not a screen or wide area effect. It is a single hex flak barrage further away from the ship. All the AC on a hard point must be used on the same hex. The range limit would be equal to the number of AC on the hard point. A ship with 4 AC on a single hard point could only target a single hex, but up to 4 hexes away and in arc. Then why not just go with a D10 and be done with it? All weapons on a hard point shhoot at the same target already, the FC would give the ACs more range and fighters values would still be used.
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daniel
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 110
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Post by daniel on Apr 2, 2011 9:45:21 GMT -5
An additional thought after futzing with it a little last night. If used against fighters I think the fire should occur in the fighter phase before they can attack. If treated as Ship Fire it happens much later in the turn well after the fighters have wreaked their havoc.
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Post by warchariot on Apr 2, 2011 18:17:50 GMT -5
An additional thought after futzing with it a little last night. If used against fighters I think the fire should occur in the fighter phase before they can attack. If treated as Ship Fire it happens much later in the turn well after the fighters have wreaked their havoc. It seems to me we changed the fighter sequence to aviod fighters being crushed before they could do anything. A change back would bring us full circle on fighters.
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daniel
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 110
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Post by daniel on Apr 2, 2011 19:42:33 GMT -5
An additional thought after futzing with it a little last night. If used against fighters I think the fire should occur in the fighter phase before they can attack. If treated as Ship Fire it happens much later in the turn well after the fighters have wreaked their havoc. It seems to me we changed the fighter sequence to aviod fighters being crushed before they could do anything. A change back would bring us full circle on fighters. Thanks. Yeah, it's easy to overthink and make it worse. I have the MvM Colonial Marauder in mind, which is what I think of when the Berzerk in the series comes up. Small and loaded with gatling cannon and built to send deadly rain into a fighter swarm. As we know it was useless. Now it needs a 6 on D6 to hit a Reaper 3 at range 1 and can't kill further out. With 8 cannon it should take down a single fighter, maybe two per turn and no re-rolls. Big deal...
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Post by RiflemanIII on Apr 3, 2011 20:59:58 GMT -5
Besides, I've seen maybe one AAR of MvM where the Colonials didn't get their heads handed to them or otherwise totally out-fought. They need all the help they can get, especially now that Reaper I's also do 2 damage in a setting with no shields.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Apr 4, 2011 8:49:36 GMT -5
Hmmm. . . what about a slightly modified approach then.
Instead of the damage-tradeoff. . . what if the Rapid Fire property doubled the fire control bonus, and the rate of fire, in exchange for half damage rounded down?
So GAC in rapid fire mode becomes:
Damage 1 Fire Control Bonus x2 Shots 2 ea.
As far as the Colonials losing goes. . . Colonials actually need to exercise some good, thoughtful tactics to win. I feel that a lot of reports we've seen have been "first tries" when the Colonials learned some harsh lessons about using fighters strictly in a defensive capacity with Raptor support. So I'm not sure we have a representative sample of battles yet. Still I think I do want to do something about the long range flak. As I mentioned it was intended to be included in the rules, but just didn't make it.
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daniel
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 110
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Post by daniel on Apr 4, 2011 10:47:48 GMT -5
As far as the Colonials losing goes. . . Colonials actually need to exercise some good, thoughtful tactics to win. I feel that a lot of reports we've seen have been "first tries" when the Colonials learned some harsh lessons about using fighters strictly in a defensive capacity with Raptor support. So I'm not sure we have a representative sample of battles yet. Still I think I do want to do something about the long range flak. As I mentioned it was intended to be included in the rules, but just didn't make it. Completely agree on Colonials losing. The game is very balanced that way.
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Post by warchariot on Apr 4, 2011 14:07:28 GMT -5
Yep, after we were done play testing, we talked about fighters and reducing the missile numbers on Cyborg ships. The problem is they have nothing else. If you play a six turn game, then the Cyborgs may have an upper hand, if you play longer they ran out of ammo and fighters. The problem is getting beyond turn 5-6 in a game of MvM.
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Post by irishthump on Apr 4, 2011 18:05:51 GMT -5
Yep, after we were done play testing, we talked about fighters and reducing the missile numbers on Cyborg ships. The problem is they have nothing else. If you play a six turn game, then the Cyborgs may have an upper hand, if you play longer they ran out of ammo and fighters. The problem is getting beyond turn 5-6 in a game of MvM. I can see what you mean. I have played 1 solo game just to get familiar with the rules. I had one Hermes facing off against a Type 1 early assault carrier. Now due in part to my inexperience using missiles and more importantly to the fact that the Hermes had some VERY good luck with it's PD roll,s after turn 3 I was out of missiles and the fusion torpedoes were'nt worth a damn at long range. I managed 1 critical on the Hermes' PD which it repaired straight away, 2 good rounds of shooting later and the Cyborg carrier was dust!
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Post by warchariot on Apr 4, 2011 20:12:50 GMT -5
Yes, the trick is to get close enough to shoot without being in point-blank missile range with auto hits, or more correctly auto strikes against ships who now have to defend.
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Aug 23, 2011 12:12:32 GMT -5
Is there any official change out of this? I'm still playing with the standard reroll.
Do you need more reports on the various proposals? I can certainly help there.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Aug 23, 2011 13:59:48 GMT -5
You can consider this official errata:
******************************************************** Rapid Fire: This weapon cycles so rapidly its possible to target multiple possible intercepts simultaneously, increasing the likelyhood of a hit, at the expense of reduced damage.
When firing a rapid fire weapon, you may choose to double the ship's FC bonus when rolling to hit, but halve the damage of the weapon (rounded down) for any hits that are scored.
*******************************************
So that update, or something like it, will be made next time I update the files. In the meantime though, if you want to try it out and verify it works as intended, that'd be great.
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