Balanced Faction Options?

[unclejoe]

Hi guys,

I just recently picked up the rules and we are looking forward to our first game. I'm still wading through the rulebook and will design two simple 'starter' fleets for my group. After that, I'm sure my friends will be wanting to design their own ships and factions.

Given that, I was wondering whether anyone has any suggestions for balanced (at least reasonably) Faction Benefits? Even just a list of like 8-10 would be great. We have the few listed for the the 'historical' races, but we don't have the experience to 'agree' upon new ones.

This (and the tech selection) seems to be a very interesting and unique concepts among simple space tactical systems (and I've played a few... ). It would be great if this aspect of the game could be developed a little bit more and if future products could include even more variety and options for faction options and design.

Thanks!

[TheDreadnought]

Glad you're excited about the game. Come back and give us a rundown of what happened!

As far as faction benefits go, the hard part about trying to provide a "balanced list" is that I'd have to restrict the scope of what faction benefits could be in that regard.

What I would suggest, and what I intended, is go ahead and play a few games - either making your own ships or using the core races.

After 2 or 3 games you should have a pretty good feel for the significance of one thing or another - especially within the context of your own gaming group as well as some idea of what your personal play style will be like.

Then everybody write up a description of what their faction's qualities are and decide on tech levels for them. Then that person either comes up with 2 or 3 possible faction benefits and the rest of the group choses which one is best. OR the rest of the group just agrees on an appropriate faction benefit that reflects the nature of the faction that person designed.

I don't think its necessary to have perfectly balanced factions. Many of the best stories have one side struggling to overcome a stronger foe. As a group you should be able to decide on some faction benefits that suit the individual player's style without making them supremely more powerful than everybody else.

If you're just looking for "tournament style" balance in your games, just play with the default settings (TL 5 across the board) and no factions. Otherwise I think the variety will only help.

As far as future supplements goes, there are fleet books in the works and each of those fleet books will have two or more additional factions in them as well as fleet lists and custom tech. I may decide to do a "faction benefit menu" that creates a list of roughly even faction benefits if there is enough demand for one, but I really think that limited approach is less fun than the "choose your own" approach.

So. . . those are my thoughts. If other people have faction benefit ideas and want to jump in with them, feel free.

[unclejoe]

Actually, some of those 'house rules' up for grabs in the other threads could be scope for Faction Benefits.

For example:

This race has continued to develop ballistic weaponry farther than most other races. As a result, all of their Autocannon have +1 Pen.

or

This race has developed weaponry which not only hits the components of a ship, but also weakens the structure. All Direct Fire weapons from this race remove a point of AV on the target on a critical hit roll of doubles.

or

This race concentrates more on smaller craft and continues to use Fusion Torpedoes as a primary weapon. Their Fusion Torpedo launchers come 'loaded' with 1 Torpedo. Additional shots must be purchases normally.

I'm sure there are others and I'll eventually begin to compile a list.

I'm thinking they could also be more or less balanced out by using tech points to compensate. For example, if it's a relatively 'weak' ability, it doesnt cost any tech point or could even give a point or two.

On the other hand, a particularly powerful ability might require a faction to spend a few less tech points in areas to compensate.

Does anyone else have any Faction Benefits that they are using?

[unclejoe]

OK, here is a first brush of some ideas and a possible 'cost' in tech points for the benefit. This list largely consists of the stock picks from the book and some of the potential 'House Rules' turned into decisions.

Cost:1 Heavy Ballistics – Autocannons receive +1 Pen

Cost:2 Gravitic Weaponry – You reduce the target’s AV by one on a crit roll of ‘doubles’.

Cost:1 Fusion tech – Fusion Torpedo launchers come with one free round.

Cost:2 Superior Training - +1 Initiative

Cost:3 Massive Fleet – Receive 10% more tonnage/scenario

Cost:4 Organic Hulls – Ships repair 2x HS during Initiative Phase.

Cost: 1 Superior Fighter tech – Fusion Torps for Squadrons take 6 tons, not 7. Fighters +1 Speed. Strikefighters +1 Pen.

Thoughts? If any of the above look too hideous or too useless, please let me know.

If there is interest, I'll add more as I think of things that appear to add flavor without breaking anything.

[Jester]

Nice work. At first glance I dont see any that are overpowered. Organic Hulls could be huge but I would be giving up 4 tech levels. In a 15 point Tech universe thats a tough decsion (aka, I like it!!).

For Gravatic Weaponry, is that for all weapons or specifc types?

I really like the idea of "spending" tech levels to get faction benifits. Ill see if Joe wants to use them in our next game and we will test them out.

[unclejoe]

For Gravitic weapons, I'd say any at first brush, but if you want to err on the safe side, I'd go with "only for direct fire weapons".

[Jester]

Has anyone played with these yet? Im curious to see what others think (as we might be stealing...er...using some for our upcoming mini-campaign).

Here are two more I was thinking of (Ironcily, they are a perfect fit for my opponent).

Cost 2: Advanced Engines: All ships gain +1 Delta. Fleet cannot have any ships over 624 Tons (BC)

Cost 3: Advanced Stealth: = CLs may be given the Scout Roll

I know my buddy is a huge fan of stealth (and all things sneaky) and had already mentioned getting Scout for CLs. I was just wondering if anyone had played with CLs and scout...could be pretty heinous (decloaking CL with ASMG...mwhahahahahaha).

[unclejoe]

I have not played with these options yet. I'm still introducing people to the game so we are trying to keep it simple for the moment. But I want to add them soon.

And yeah, those two above look pretty cool too. Both would likely be somewhat pricey.

I'm also thinking that Organic Hulls would likely come down a bit in 'price'. On paper, it looks extremely good, but I've been watching for places in our games where it would help and it doesnt come up as often as it seems like it would. In many cases, a ship is subjected to enough firepower to simply kill it outright.

The real trick with these options is going to be to get eveyone to buy in that they are 'balanced' for their cost.

[warchariot]

"Cost 2: Advanced Engines: All ships gain +1 Delta. Fleet cannot have any ships over 624 Tons (BC)

Cost 3: Advanced Stealth: = CLs may be given the Scout Roll"

So it would like an RDF fleet with the +1 Delta, or just the speed and 1 extra turn? I haven't used any stealth at all. I've never been a fan of tracking things off board.

[unclejoe]

That's the joy of the Stealth system in CB...no tracking required. It's a bit on the abstract side, but it works fine IMO and without any hassle.

[warchariot]

I may have to think about a place to use it, off to read the rules for stealth.

[Jester]

Jul 5, 2010 12:49:56 GMT -5 warchariot said:

"Cost 2: Advanced Engines: All ships gain +1 Delta. Fleet cannot have any ships over 624 Tons (BC)

Cost 3: Advanced Stealth: = CLs may be given the Scout Roll"

So it would like an RDF fleet with the +1 Delta, or just the speed and 1 extra turn? I haven't used any stealth at all. I've never been a fan of tracking things off board.

The Advanced Speed Trait would be in addition to any RDF role you gave your ships. The idea was to create a faction who favored fast ships at the expense of big ships (Think Eldar in BFG). So it would be possilbe to get the +1 Delta for the faction benifit and an additional +1 delta for RDFs.

Again, havnt even proposed to my "speed freak" player so not sure if would think it is worth it.

Also, I agree with Unclejoe...the stealth rules in CB rock. No tracking, straightforward, effective and can be countered to an extent...the feel right.

[warchariot]

Okay, so RDF would be available as a role still.

I read through them today, hadn't pay much attention to them before your post. Might have to look into building one of these and I have just the ship for it.

[flutterz]

Hey folks, first post here, but an old hand with the pew-pew space gaming.

After having run a few solo games, I have one faction of insidious interlopers built around high quantum tech, but I was trying to find a way to create more of a strategic stealth advantage that benefits them beyond just having some dink boats sneak up through the back door (well, of course they like to do that too....). At the same time, I'm trying to keep it very simple, so....

Strategic Stealth Systems - Before the battle begins, roll 1d6 and....

Option A - on a 5 or 6, play the Ambush scenario with the stealth endowed player as the attacker.

Option B - on a 5, play the Ambush scenario with the stealth endowed player as the attacker. on a 6, play the 'Convoy Raid' Scenario with the stealth endowed player as the attacker.

It doesn't get much simpler than that, but I think it rather communicates the idea of how these guys would operate. Of course, I don't have RDF battle cruisers for that faction (the much dreaded 'Boleyn Matriarchy) with which to properly hit Convoys as a bread and butter move, so I'm rather leaning towards Option A for myself, though I think B might be better overall.

I am using the 'Admiral's Discretion/+1 initiative' and 'Industrial Efficiency/+10% Force size' benefits from the rulebook for rival factions, so I was wondering how balanced this stealth is against those in others opinions. Too much, too little?

For the Boleyn's, I have it to where their ship limit is a paltry 640 Tons (the absolute smallest BB), so that works against them too.