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Post by toaster on Oct 25, 2011 1:57:24 GMT -5
Patrol boats don't have jump engines and so get double thrust out of their drives allowing them to be faster than normal DD's for the same weapons load or to carry heavier weapons for the same acceleration. But do you get that advantage?
The problem is that standard destroyers are automatically RDF as their only other choice is scout which has its own special rules (or screen at LW5). This means that if you pay for delta 1 you get delta 2 for both and the RDF has better maneuverability. At delta 2 each the patrol boat has one more point of thrust but equal maneuverability, and at delta 3 (assuming AM5) the patrol boat finally gains a maneuverability advantage over a RDF destroyer with the same weapon load.
I can't think of any easy fix for this, most ideas would require a lot of playtesting but I would think that a price reduction for patrol boats in a campaign setting may be needed to make them a worthwhile option rather than just taking more RDF that can be moved around as needed.
The other path is to increase the number of roles available for DD's to create more tactical options in the game and ensure that there are some DD's that the patrol boats can both run rings around and outgun since that is generally considered the advantage of getting rid of the mass of the jump drive.
What does everyone else think?
Robert
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Post by TheDreadnought on Oct 25, 2011 8:34:01 GMT -5
Well I'd tend to assume that a Patrol Boat would be at least delta 3.
But really one area I've always felt needed enhancement was increased roles for the DDs.
Maybe I could come up with something for a "Gunboat" or something similar. Or make "Frigate" a DD role, just like "Carrier" is a role.
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Post by admiralgrafspee on Oct 25, 2011 22:29:16 GMT -5
Roles = awesome
So IMHO the more the better!
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Post by toaster on Oct 26, 2011 3:47:59 GMT -5
Definately could go for a slower more heavily armoured DD version, how about a pursuit ship that gets extra delta at a cost in number of turns allowed to give a high straight line speed. What about rules for dedicated missile boats? Come everyone give Harry some ideas to work with.
Robert
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Oct 26, 2011 17:18:51 GMT -5
I like the idea of a Frigate role for independent operations, not sure what it would look like.
Maybe the Patrol role could assume that the ship is in close supply, or has higher crew rotations, etc. and get a tonnage % bonus that would ordinarily be used for rations and crew amenities - that could give it the edge over RDF for in-system choice.
How about a Leader role that could be used for 'official' small squadrons without capital ships? Max of one/fleet, could lead a fleet of up to two additional DD, and gets some weapon system (maybe even something outside normal class limits) for free a la Flagship interceptor.
Finally, I think a missile platform with more expensive or a low maximum delta and some sort of discount on ammo (can't fit much on a darn DD) would be fun to play with. I've already decided to name mine the Caltrop class!
Oh, one more - some sort of tender/collier/tug that could carry ammo and resupply ships during combat (or just expand the auxiliary role).
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Post by toaster on Oct 26, 2011 18:30:22 GMT -5
I thought up a couple of options for missile boats. a) can fire any number of missile hardpoints for use of a single fire control point b) external racks; can fire up to the entire magazine in a single turn from a single launcher. Either option allows for powerful one shot attacks after which the missile boat will be reduced to sniping with a secondry weapon if any. The requirement to have 1 FC per launcher on a size 1 hull is what makes this impractable with the current rules.
Robert
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Oct 26, 2011 20:14:35 GMT -5
I also forgot a Gunboat DD idea - slow movement but allow it to get more armor than normally allowed, maybe a shield bonus too. Either a max delta, or make all delta cost more based on how much armor exceeds normal max.
I like the FC idea for a missile boat, allowing more hardpoints to share one FC, would add that it all needs to be at same target.
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Post by toaster on Oct 26, 2011 20:53:54 GMT -5
The shared FC idea would only apply to missile launches and missiles don't need to be assigned a target on launch so what this role represents would be slightly more autonomous missiles.
Robert
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Oct 27, 2011 10:37:15 GMT -5
Roger, didn't read that right.
Perhaps we could have a new piece of equipment for the Scout role for those who don't want it to stealth - an Advanced Sensor Array that allows a Scout to loan other ships within 4 hexes one additional FC point. This would effectively result in +1 to direct fire due to the increased FC value, but would not be subject to the enemy being within 4 hexes of the Scout and would allow the receiving ship to engage an additional target. Loaned FC reduces the Scout's FC, and thus limits the number of loaned points as well as the Scout's personal FC for die rolls.
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Nov 3, 2011 18:19:05 GMT -5
The scifi submarine thread brings up the idea of an ASW role for the DD to detect stealth. Maybe a minesweeping role as well, but that might be combined into one stealth detection role.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Nov 3, 2011 20:50:19 GMT -5
Well the current scouts already 'sweep' for mines and stealthed craft.
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hamilton
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 141
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Post by hamilton on Nov 3, 2011 21:39:26 GMT -5
I was thinking more of an active fix on stealth ships or mines rather than a passive 'can't unstealth near me', but given that stealth in CBF is really an ad-hoc placement and not pre-plotted, I guess that wouldn't work.
EDIT - and to clarify, I like the current stealth rules for being records-lite!
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