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Post by capnpete1 on Oct 8, 2012 19:44:27 GMT -5
looked around the sites and couldnt find any references here and while i dont own all the products I didnt recall seeing any mention of shore batteries so I thought I'd start a thread and get some talk going.
I figure shore batteries would have good to excellent AV (15+) and should have a serious FC bonus of some type due to the stability of the gun and the fact that the range finders can be hundreds of feet apart and thus have a large base for triangulation(no spell check online hope its right). Plus radar would be possible. The target number is harder to figure. Battery cant move But is much smaller than a average CL or most DD's. If you look at the old fortress europa photos the batteries were rarely larger than about 100 feet wide and buried in hills, Lots smaller than a DD as far as target profile.
Shore batteries were considered very importent up to WW2 and even in that war did get some use as the Blucher could tell you.
And lastly what would you give a Fort for "hull" points.
Any and all suggestions or ideas would be welcome
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Post by toaster on Oct 8, 2012 23:11:54 GMT -5
Shore batteries are mentioned in the scenarios section of Battleship Row and stated to be effectivly immune to naval fire. If you wanted to be able to engage them (a silence the batteries mission for example) I would treat them as a battleship with infinite hull so you need to score a main battery critical to silence each gun/turret.
Robert
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Post by capnpete1 on Oct 10, 2012 5:55:48 GMT -5
Feeling a bit foolish I read the Paragraph on shore batteries.
Cant be hit. Wish I had a invulnerability spell like that. In reality they could and were hit sometimes,bombed often and were treated as a serious issue by the various navies of the world.
Maybe this would be a good place to try and get a page or two of rules started. The subject could come up in some historical scenarios and in alot of hypothetical ones
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Post by TheDreadnought on Oct 10, 2012 12:50:06 GMT -5
Toaster's suggestion is a good one.
The reason I simplified the rules for them is because they really just don't come up that much and Naval Thunder is supposed to be relatively rules-light.
The historical record shows that in cases where shore batteries were used against naval ships, they usually weren't very effective. Similarly, shore bombardment by naval ships was notoriously ineffective at silencing land based guns. These things just weren't decisive weapons, hence they got a short section of rules assigned to them. I'd caution against overstating their contribution by coming up with a bunch of rules for them beyond what is presented.
On the other hand. . . I'm always in support of people making the game their own. So if lethal (or vulnerable) shore batteries are your thing. . . I say go for it.
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Post by capnpete1 on Oct 10, 2012 21:13:18 GMT -5
Point taken. I have a tendancy to go into "soap box" mode and get carried away. As a guideline though do you think a FC of -2 and armor in the teens would be about right for a dug in position with a few feet of concrete and a foot of steel. with a target number of 10 or maybe only 9 and the same hit points as a good ca would be not too un reasonable.
lastly if one wanted to How would you point value it?
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Post by regiamarina on Oct 11, 2012 22:45:30 GMT -5
I think the values you want should depend on the emplacement you want to represent. Atlantic Wall emplacemets should be better than Italy or Sicily for example and they should be better again than emplacements in North Africa.
For all emplacements I would have a high to hit number, at least 10 if not more. They were very hard to hit from the sea and were rarely silenced by naval fire. And remember a bunker won't be able to evade.
For an Atlantic Wall emplacement I would put the armour in the high teens as reinforced concrete and steel was pretty good at absorbing AP rounds, have a look at photos of the Atlantic Wall and the pounding those emplacements took before being knocked out. Reduce the number to mid teens and low teens for weaker bunker systems and trenches.
As for hull points I'd say that would depend on the emplacement you were trying to replicate. An Atlantic Wall bunker system, for example, should be higher than the others but I wouldn't go over say 30-35. The emplacement was hard to hit and penetrate but if you did you could knock out large sections from the explosive concussion racing through the enclosed spaces.
Fire Control no idea really. Again some seemed better than others so I think it should depend on the scenario. Though I would add that I think FC:RDR shouldn't get the bonus to hit the emplacement.
As for points no clue. I'm generally ok at statting up ships which haven't been released yet but haven't assigned any points to them as I really don't know how those numbers are arrived at.
Hope this gives you some ideas to think about.
Martin
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