meesch56
Lieutenant
It was a Cruel Sea.
Posts: 57
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Post by meesch56 on Feb 26, 2011 22:28:05 GMT -5
Torpedo Run-
For destroyers DE and PT boats a Torpedo launch must be declared at the start of the ships Movement Phase. The Torpedo launch may be made at any point in the ship's movement beyond 1". A marker will be placed at the point of launch and a torpedo marker will be placed against the target ship. This will allow for accurate measure of the torpedo's path and also give the Destroyer a chance to close range, launch torpedoes, turn tale and gain separation. Note that while launching a torpedo spread a ship is not allowed use evasive Maneuvers. Loss of the +1 for EV combined with the gun attack within 6" -1 and the Secondaries within 20" -1 Makes a sitting duck out of any small ship trying to launch a successful Torpedo run.
Thoughts?
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Post by slojax on Apr 23, 2011 17:16:11 GMT -5
You're so right about the dismal survival prospects for individual DD, DE or TB as they close to effective torpedo range. When you read histories of 20th century naval combat you find that real destroyer men faced the same deterrent (which might account for all the torpedo attacks that were launched from way too far away to be effective). The fact that this is so when playing with Naval Thunder suggests that it is a well thought out set of rules.
The approach that I've found that works (if you just can't bring yourself to save your torpedoes for cripples) is to saturate the defense by throwing destroyers (TB's, whatever) at the enemy line by the handful. It is occasionally expensive but I can usually (about 8 times out of 10) get at least one tin can close enough to kill something.
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aman
Lieutenant
Posts: 45
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Post by aman on Aug 10, 2011 20:24:08 GMT -5
Fight at night. That's when the IJN raised hell with their torpedoes. If your opponants don't have radar, use smoke screens to get closer and closer - they can't shoot you through a smoke screen at all.
Also, it looks like the rules update will include Target 10+ for DD and a fixed 3" cost for Evade.
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Post by weseld1 on Nov 15, 2011 1:41:43 GMT -5
For starters, I agree that the biggest problem is poor tactics. My players virtually always lead with their DDs and send them dashing into range of the enemy BBs before the BBs on either side have anything else to shoot at. Even if the BBs are in range of each other with their main batteries, their secondaries have no other targets and can hose the DDs before they get in torpedo range. I have yet to see a player use evasive action or smoke to keep his DDs alive during the torpedo run, let alone hold them back for giving the coup d'gras to crippled BBs that can hardly fire back.
But that said, I like the proposed changes [+10 for DDs, +9 for "scout cruisers" (those well under 10000 tons) and 3" (rather than half speed) penalty for evasive maneuvering]. These seem to give a much needed boost to the DDs as torpedo launchers.
I have also been ruling that overpenetrations do not produce gunfire critical hits. If the shell does not burst, there is no way to start fires and set off the magazines. Just giving flotation critical hits would be a more reasonable result for an unexploded 16" shell plunging out the bottom of a destroyer...
In spite of all the above, out latest game did see a German destroyer (Z14) with a charmed life live to give the HMS RODNEY nearly fatal torpedo damage. It was aided in this by the Rodney having no guns which can fire aft, according to the Royal Navy SSD. Much complaining from the British team followed. Examining the model, and the plans in Breyer, it seems that at least four 6" guns on each side should be be to bear straight aft, and even allowing for the attacking DD being a little to port of dead aft, there should have been four that could engage it. There are other WW2 ships with the same situation. While WWI BBs secondaries were almost always mounted in barbettes that could not fire forward or aft, so the four quadrants used in the SSDs describe them pretty well as being either P or S, by WW2 many ships were being designed to give some forward and/or aft firing secondaries. Nelson and Rodney were clearly set up that way, as were the 6" turrets on the Littorio. I think we need to define four new arcs of fire that could be applied to the ships with secondary wing turrets:
AP (astern but only to port of the centerline), AS (astern but only to starboard of centerline)
FP (forward but only to port of the centerline), FS (forward but only to starboard of centerline)
I haven't seen your WWI or Predreadnought rules, but how do they handle arcs of fire for wing and staggered main guns turrets?
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Post by ckosacranoid on Nov 16, 2011 1:05:51 GMT -5
i have to say someone had some balls to get behind a battleship with a destorer and what where the other chaps doing for covering his butt to let said ship sneak up behind him....
i have to say is you leave yourself open to take it up the rear, you deseave to eat a torp then....
contrats to who ever managed to get that setup had balls and skill to pull it off.
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Post by TheDreadnought on Nov 16, 2011 9:29:28 GMT -5
In the interest of simplicity, secondary battery firing arcs were simplified.
If you wanted to add some of that back, a reasonable house rule might be that 1/2 of secondaries on each side (rounded down) can fire into a 90 degree FP, FS, AP, or AS arc like you describe. That would cover the arrangements on most ships.
I often get questions about why I didn't include this or that little rule. The problem is all those little rules add up quickly and before you know it you're playing Seekrieg. So I just took the approach of keeping the game as simple and easy as possible, throwing a bunch of optional rules in for people who wanted to use them, and being ok with people houseruling the system to their content.
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Post by navigator37 on Nov 16, 2011 11:02:56 GMT -5
In the interest of simplicity, secondary battery firing arcs we're simplified. If you wanted to add some of that back, a reasonable house rule might be that 1/2 of secondaries on each side (rounded down) can fire into a 90 degree FP, FS, AP, or AS arc like you describe. That would cover the arrangements on most ships. I often get questions about why I didn't include this or that little rule. The problem is all those little rules add up quickly and before you know it you're playing Seekrieg. So I just took the approach of keeping the game as simple and easy as possible, throwing a bunch of optional rules in for people who wanted to use them, and being ok with people houseruling the system to their content. Huzza! |
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Post by weseld1 on Nov 21, 2011 13:45:23 GMT -5
To answer ckosacranoid: The other chaps were wiping out the other three German DDs. After Z14 scored, they pursued it out of the battle (even though it was now out of torps and not much of a threat) instead of laying smoke to cover the withdrawl of the crippled RODNEY (soon finished off by GNEISENAU)
I had assumed that AS, AP, FS amd FP would be 45 degree arcs to suppliment the existing P and S arcs.
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