Pre-Dred? What Scale?

[davethelost]

I have extensive WWI fleets in 1:6000 scale, and small Modern fleets in that scale as well.

I am curious to know what differentiates Pre-Dred from Great War naval?

I see a lot of RJW battle reports here, so I am guessing Pre-Dreds are popular with you guys. Tell me a bit about what makes this period fun.

Also if I decide to take the plunge and try pre-Dred gaming what scale would you recomend? I have concerns that 1:6000 might actually be too small for this period. It works fantasticly well for Moderns with current long engagement distances, and lets me do a large WWI battle on a small table top. It seems that pre-dred ships are a bit smaller and fight at closer distances, if this is the case would larger ship models be in order?

Any thoughts and suggestions welcome.

[TheDreadnought]

Well if you play 1/6000 and use the suggestion for adjusting scale for pre-dreads that I stickied at the top of this forum, you are starting to get within spitting distance of "true-scale" which is cool all on its own.

That said, I like to see the details on my ships and their turrets and 1/6000 has always been a little small for my preference in that regard.

The WTJ 1/3000 scale ships are excellent, and if I collect pre-dread fleets, that is probably what I am going to go with. That or GHQ. For me, seeing the ships on the tabletop is a big part of enjoying the game, so I like the larger stuff.

I'll let some of the other guys speak to why they like pre-dreads so much. I am starting to see the attaction through the battle reports they are posting. . . but for right now still think WWI is my favorite.

[Bluebear]

As to scale, it depends upon a number of factors. Table size, eyesight and pocket book come readily to mind.

If you are fortunate enough to have excellent eyesight, then I would suggest the WTJ 1/3000 ships. They have excellent coverage, not only of those nations that actively fought, but also other period navies for lots of "what if" encounters.

www.wtj.com/store/

As Harry wrote, combat was much closer than in WWI. Communication was very limited (no radio or even wireless until the very end of the period), so formations were quite tight.

But the biggest draw for the Pre-Dreadnought period is the ships themselves. Understand that this is a time of transition from wooden sailing ships to steam-driven steel ships . . . and designers came up with a lot of crazy designs . . . some good, many quirky, a few terrible . . . but almost all fun on the table top.

If, like me, your eyes are less than perfect (and getting worse), then the 1/2400 ships are definitely worthy of consideration. I'm using the 1/2400 Panzerschiffes (as are a number of us), partly due to their affordability; but there are several other 1/2400 manufacturers as well.

www.panzerschiffe.com/Catalog.html

There are also the wonderful Houston 1/1000 scale (approximately) ships . . . but they are more appropriate for someone who has a very LARGE table top or access to a large open floor:

www.greatendeavours.co.uk/ships/index.php

There are undoubtedly some 1/6000 manufactuers of Pre-Dreadnoughts, but almost everyone thinks that this scale is too small for the period. My personal guess is that you (as a 1/6000 gamer) should take a good look at the War Times Journal ships:

www.wtj.com/store/

Go to the above site . . . look on the left hand side . . . click on any country that you might fancy . . . now click on any of the ships that appear in the big screen for a photo of the ship in bare metal . . enjoy!


-- Jeff

[afilter]

I have used 1/6000 up to 1/1800 for my own collections and I had the opportunity to play with the Houston 1/1000 Pre-dreads.

I settled on the PS 1/2400 for two reasons.
1. Affordable with an acceptable amount of detail. Additional detail can be added to if you like to model as I do. Once you add proper masts they are comparable to the Houston ships IMO for the scale at 1/4 the price.

2. The wide selection of ships available. I have already completed the complete OoB for Yellow Sea and Ulsan. I recently ordered the remaining ships to complete the OoB for Tsushima.

If you are a modeler the callenge of transforming this:


Into this:


Is half the fun. ;D

If you check out the painitng section you can see many of the models I have completed so far. Blue Bear has also posted links to some excellent blogs (CoL Campbell) which can help you as well.

As for why Pre-Dreads....I had never considered playing or collecting Pre-Dreads until this past October when I attended NAVCON and played using RoTB for the first time. I happened to also win a silent auction for a box of used 1/2400 pre-dreads there as well.

Since then I have been hooked. Pre-dreads is true slug it out Naval combat through fire and manuever using line of battle tactics. No Subs, No Planes and all done at close range. The Unique ship models are very interesting and make a nice table top displays a well.

I still enjoy WWI and WWII, but this period has become my favorite for the time being. The potential for lots of ships slugging it out until only one fleet remains.

What is not to love about this





Besides with the upcoming release of RoTB II (Before X-mas) there will be that much more Pre-Dread action to love including the Spanish American War..."Remember the Maine!"

Yeah, Harry that was another hint.

[davethelost]

Reading the battle reports and looking at the modeling you guys do is what got me thinking about larger scale models for this.

The example you post is quite dramatic Aaron. I have done similar with 1:600 ACW ships. The little touches can add a lot.

--dave

[davethelost]

Looking at the list of ship classes suggests I may already have a jump on 1:6000 scale as a number of the early Great War vessels were based on pre-dread hulls, and in 1:6000 who can really spot the differences?

If I start pre-dreads in larger scale I can work the overlap to advantage in the other direction as well...

Hmmm, figuring out that I can use the same ships in two different scales to game two different periods, thus doubling the potential usage I get out of them, to be used as a justification for buying more stuff. Yup! I'm a gamer.

[warchariot]

Dec 10, 2010 14:27:17 GMT -5 davethelost said:

to be used as a justification for buying more stuff. Yup! I'm a gamer.

Always looking for new "reasons" I need more stuff. ;D

[shigure]

You can never have enough STUFF!!!! (especially when it pertains to gaming)

[warchariot]

We are planning to play Yellow Sea in 1/6000 on New Years day. We have the ships and can't wait, but we do like the larger scales more for all the reasons about. 1/2400 is "the" scale you see most people use because of cost, size, detail and availability.

[Bluebear]

Larry,

As you know, I've chosen 1/2400 (mainly Panzerschiffe) as my scale . . . but the 1/3000 WTJ ships are lovely . . . and the selection of other navies is outstanding:

www.wtj.com/store/


-- Jeff

[fastgit]

I've been lured to the dark side... (from CB first, and then NT & CoD to RotB) and I agree... the WTJ models are beautiful. I keep going back and forth between those 1:3000 and Panzerschiffe's 1:2400.

[warchariot]

I think the 1:3000 have more detail than the Panzerschiffe models, but are smaller and harder to paint!

[Bluebear]

fastgit,

You can't go wrong with either one . . . perhaps you should decide what aspect of the Pre-Dread period appeals to you the most. Is it the Russo-Japanese War, or the Spanish-American War, or "what if" conflicts including some of the European navies?

If it is the first two, either company will be good . . . and although they are probably better sculpts, they are smaller and a bit more expensive (although still reasonable).

If it is the latter, the WTJ has more period ships than Panzerschiffe (although a fair number of the Panzerschiffe WWI ships are hold-overs from the Pre-Dread period and can be used earlier once we have RotB2).

Larry, I'm old with less-than-perfect eyesight . . . so I'm quite happy with the larger Panzersciffes . . . and I found them easier to paint than the WTJ ships.

But you can't make a bad choice here. Both model lines are quite good.


-- Jeff

[fastgit]

Thanks, Jeff, for your insight. Good to know that either decision will be a good one...

;D

And I think I'm leaning towards the WTJ line... I like the idea of conflict between European nations... and maybe the USN.

[Bluebear]

The ships aren't that expensive . . . why not order a few samples from each and see which you like better?


-- Jeff

[fastgit]

Dec 28, 2010 23:36:41 GMT -5 Bluebear said:

The ships aren't that expensive . . . why not order a few samples from each and see which you like better?


-- Jeff

That strikes me as an eminently wise decision.

[warchariot]

Its the beard that makes him so smart, or maybe his wife!

[Bluebear]

Well, I DO have a wonderful wife . . . who insists that I keep the beard. I grew it for a play I was in years ago, and she liked it . . . so she wants me to keep it (and it is easier than shaving every day too).


-- Jeff

[warchariot]

Here is another manufacture who makes 1/2400 scale Predreads. I would email him first as he hasn't up dated his site in awhile.

www.molniyafigs.com/ships.html

[Bluebear]

Molniya has specifically targeted ships unavailable from other 1/2400 manufacturers (like Panzersciffe and Viking Forge). I've not seen any of their ships, but I've read that they're good.


-- Jeff